NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

[JimKindred]

NRA-ILA Press Release -

Today, Thursday, June 12, the New Jersey Assembly Judiciary Committee passed A2116 by a vote of 5-1.

As passed, the legislation will ban virtually all firearms over .50 caliber. While the Committee attempted to address some of the concerns of gun owners and sportsmen, it still bans many popular hunting guns, historical American firearms, and large bore target firearms, based on alleged public safety concerns. Included are historical American firearms and replicas, including those from the Revolutionary War and Civil War eras. The legislation makes the fundamental mistake of banning guns based on the size of the barrel rather than punishing criminal behavior.

Proponents of the ban attempted to demonize a whole class of firearms and their owners by claiming the only intent of these firearms is criminal misuse. Testifying before the committee as legal and technical experts of .50 caliber firearms were NRA Board Members Scott Bach, Bob Viden and John Burtt.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4004

Reenactors should no longer stick their head in the sand when it comes to modern firearms legislation. It can and will effect us.

Since we have had “spirited discussions” in the past regarding firearms issues I am asking that you in discussing this topic please make your posts relevant to how this legislation effects Civil War reenacting and not stray off into emotional rants. I will be watching this discussion closely and will delete any posts that stray.

Jim Kindred

[Matt_E_Wright]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

First: This ammendment appears to have only made it through the committee stage, and is not yet law, although I am no expert on the NJ State Assembly.

Second: For antique weapons or reproductions of antique weapons the "ban" applies to weapons over .60 caliber (and you may be able to get in the smoothbore .69 and greater weapons under the definition of "shotgun").

Third: There is a grandfather clause for folks that already lawfully own any weapons that this new statute makes illegal.

The law is still troublesome, but may not be as bad for reenactors as it has been made out to be. If I were a reenactor in NJ, or a reenactor that planned to be in NJ, i think it would be prudent to take some steps to document the weapons that you already own, so that you can use the grandfather clause if you're ever prosecuted.

Matt Wright

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Jim,

Thank you for making us aware of this!!

One question I would have:
What happens to the relics owned inside the state now? Are ACW and Rev War muskets going to be "altered", much like the "demillig" required for machine guns? Are collectors going to be required to weld touch holes closed or something?

The value on relics is all about condition-condition-condition!! If these things are altered to make them unusable, they are pretty much junked as collectables.

The specific ban is for ANYTHING capable of firing a projectile of caliber greater than 60. So, this would include:
US Muskets, models of 1795, 1812, 1816, 1840, and 1842, as well as foreign muskets like the "Brown Bess", French/Belgian models of 1822 and 1842, and Prussian "Potsdam" muskets.

The .577 and .58 cal weapons appear to be approved. Are items like Sharps and Spencers also OK?

I guess its a good thing they shut down the Monmouth battlefield... They'd have to arrest any reenactors that showed up! I feel safer already.

[unclefrank]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

The people of NJ will be soooo much safer now! :wink_smil

[Benedict]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

alleged public safety concerns

What exactly are these concerns?

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

First: This ammendment appears to have only made it through the committee stage, and is not yet law, although I am no expert on the NJ State Assembly.

Second: For antique weapons or reproductions of antique weapons the "ban" applies to weapons over .60 caliber (and you may be able to get in the smoothbore .69 and greater weapons under the definition of "shotgun").

Third: There is a grandfather clause for folks that already lawfully own any weapons that this new statute makes illegal.

The law is still troublesome, but may not be as bad for reenactors as it has been made out to be. If I were a reenactor in NJ, or a reenactor that planned to be in NJ, i think it would be prudent to take some steps to document the weapons that you already own, so that you can use the grandfather clause if you're ever prosecuted.

Matt Wright

As all of us that have been around a while know, how legislation looks in committee may not be how it looks in its final form. This one could be made more favorable toward reenacting and collectable firearms or it could be made worse. Much easier to attempt to ask for changes now than after the legislation is passed by the full legislature.

Personally I firmly believe this is "feel good" legislation that will have absolutely no effect on crime. It is a solution looking for a problem to solve.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

First: This ammendment appears to have only made it through the committee stage, and is not yet law, although I am no expert on the NJ State Assembly.

I hope you're right!

Second: For antique weapons or reproductions of antique weapons the "ban" applies to weapons over .60 caliber (and you may be able to get in the smoothbore .69 and greater weapons under the definition of "shotgun").

I don't think so. In reading the text, it calls out muzzle loaders and antique firearms specifically. So, it is aimed directly at the type of arms I listed in my post, above. There is an exemption for "antique firearms", but those of greater than 60 caliber still appear to be banned as "destructive devices".

Doncha just LOVE legal jargon!

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

What exactly are these concerns?

In cases such as this the primary concern is that of the elected officials being reelected. They pass legislation like this to look good for their voter base. To my knowledge no crimes have been committed in NJ with .50 plus firearms in the 20th or 21st century.

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Jim,
What happens to the relics owned inside the state now? Are ACW and Rev War muskets going to be "altered", much like the "demillig" required for machine guns? Are collectors going to be required to weld touch holes closed or something?

Mostly likely this has not been thought out very well by the committee.

Machineguns fall under the 1934 National Firearms Act and more recent rulings from ATF as to how they are demiled. This gets confusing because in many cases the type demiling will depend on the date it was done due to changes in the requirements. Currently to demil a machine gun the receiver has to have four cuts each one removing approximately a 1/2 inch of material. I do not deal with cut receivers so I will have to check the regs to be sure how much has to be removed but I am pretty sure it is 1/2 inch. Since a musket does not have a receiver they could require a steel rod be welded in the barrel, weld up the touch hole, or require it be removed from the state or destroyed. For the United States NJ has moved into uncharted waters.

In any case demiling a musket will require someone in NJ to come up with a standard since there are none Federally for something that is not classified as a firearm.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

In any case demiling a musket will require someone in NJ to come up with a standard since there are none Federally for something [muskets] that is not classified as a firearm.

This is a point that most folks probably don't realize:
Firearms made before 1898 and replicas of antique firearms (that don't fire fixed ammunition) are not considered to be "firearms" according to Federal law.

Uncharted waters indeed!

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

One thing to watch is the Heller case being heard by the Supreme Court with a ruling expected this month. Should this be ruled in favor of Heller, which all indicators say it will, this will give grounds to roll back many such laws as this due to being unconstitutional.

[Abrams]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Why this legislation now?

I mean, I think Jim has the right of it here:

Personally I firmly believe this is "feel good" legislation that will have absolutely no effect on crime. It is a solution looking for a problem to solve.

Don't those legislators have something more pressing to deal with? Like trimmining budgets?

I would never live in NJ.

[Micah Trent]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the New Jersey Assembly Judiciary Committee try passing this a few years ago but didn't pass?

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Don't those legislators have something more pressing to deal with? Like trimmining budgets?

Seriously, heaven forbid there be a murderer on the loose somewhere in New Jersey. I totally agree with you, Jim, "solution" looking for a problem- but I'm pretty sure that we would have heard about the criminal(s) that have been holding up gas stations with model '42 smoothbores! Man I loooove politicians around election time...... san you feeel the sarcasm???:wink_smil

[rebinnj]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Why this legislation now?

I mean, I think Jim has the right of it here:


Don't those legislators have something more pressing to deal with? Like trimmining budgets?

I would never live in NJ.

I live in NJ (not a native) and this is another feel good item. Even a BB gun is considers a lethal weapon here! New Jersey also requires a gun permit on all weapons, antiques, replicas.

Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree

If you don't live in NJ but attend any type of event here which requires you to have a weapon, IMO to play it safe, have a gun permit from your own state, even if not required to have one. If you are just driving through NJ with a weapon, keep it in the trunk, unloaded, and/or with a trigger lock.

http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/legis/2007c284_law.pdf