NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Jeff,

It is a bit hard to obtain a firearms permit if you live in a state that does not require or offer one as in my state and most others. The only thing we have similar is a concealed carry permit which is not recognized in NJ. My best advice for anyone planning on attending a NJ event from out of state is just to not go, if you do go do not take a firearm.

NJ along with a few other states routinely violate the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act with regards to individuals from out of state passing through with a firearm. Numerous lawsuits have been filed over this. Being a resident of another state I would not take the chance of being at an event in NJ with a firearm. If you are arrested and convicted you could lose your right to own a firearm any where.

Oh, don't go to a NJ event without a firearm and borrow one thinking you will get around the rule if asked, the key words are - "....in his possession..." Ownership does not come into play, it is who is holding it at the time. Doubtful you would be asked but you never know.

[MuleyGil]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Anyone who owns any type of firearm-muzzleloader or modern, should join the NRA. Currently, the fee is $25 a year. We all waste much more money than that on a weekly basis.

It only takes a slip of the pen to change a law that would keep us from enjoying our hobby.

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Page 7. Line 38
"This bill does, however provide exemptions for antique firearms; antique handguns; traditional muzzleloader rifles; and black powder muzzleloaders having in-line ignition, a center hammer or and under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this state. These fireamrs would continue to be governed by the statute's current "great than 60 caliber" restriction. Antique firearms and handguns are defined in the statutes as firearms which: do not fire fixed ammunition or were manufactured before 1898 and for which fixed ammunition is not commercially available; and are possessed as a curiosity or ornament."


Drew Gruber

[tomp40]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

I'm curious as to how many crimes have been committed in the last 20 years in NJ with a weapon greater than 50 cal..?? And specifically, how many have been committed with a muzzleloader. Maybe after this the NJ govt can work on banning steak knives greater than 4 inches in length.

[Matt_E_Wright]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

I hope you're right!



I don't think so. In reading the text, it calls out muzzle loaders and antique firearms specifically. So, it is aimed directly at the type of arms I listed in my post, above. There is an exemption for "antique firearms", but those of greater than 60 caliber still appear to be banned as "destructive devices".

Doncha just LOVE legal jargon!

I hear you. They do specifically address muzzleloaders and antique weapons, but the definition for shotgun is broad enough - it includes any shoulder fired weapon that doesn't used fixed ammunition - that I think a judge (or god forbid an appeals court) might be tempted to use it in order to acquit, should a rev war reenactor ever get prosecuted for carrying a brown bess.

Matt Wright

[OldKingCrow]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

One thing to watch is the Heller case being heard by the Supreme Court with a ruling expected this month. Should this be ruled in favor of Heller, which all indicators say it will, this will give grounds to roll back many such laws as this due to being unconstitutional.

As always, this ole boy knows of what he speaks. Heller will come out next Thursday, the 23rd... last day of SCOTUS for 2008.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5055064&page=1

The nation's leading gun control group filed a "friend of the court" brief back in January defending the gun ban in Washington, D.C. But with the Supreme Court poised to hand down a potentially landmark decision in the case, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence fully expects to lose.

"We've lost the battle on what the Second Amendment means," campaign president Paul Helmke told ABC News. "Seventy-five percent of the public thinks it's an individual right. Why are we arguing a theory anymore? We are concerned about what we can do practically."

While the Brady Campaign is waving the white flag in the long-running debate on whether the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to bear arms or merely a state's right to assemble a militia, it is hoping that losing the "legal battle" will eventually lead to gun control advocates winning the "political war."

"We're expecting D.C. to lose the case," Helmke said. "But this could be good from the standpoint of the political-legislative side."

The D.C. ban prohibits residents from keeping handguns inside their homes and requires that lawfully registered guns, such as shotguns, be locked and unloaded when kept at home.

If the Supreme Court strikes down the D.C. gun ban, the Brady Campaign is hoping that it will reorient gun control groups around more limited measures that will be harder to cast as infringements of the Second Amendment.

"The NRA [National Rifle Association] won't have this fear factor," Helmke said.

Brady Campaign Attorney Dennis Henigan said there are multiple gun control measures that would not run afoul of a Supreme Court decision striking down the D.C. gun ban.

"Universal background checks don't affect the right of self-defense in the home. Banning a super dangerous class of weapons, like assault weapons, also would not adversely affect the right of self-defense in the home," said Henigan. "Curbing large volume sales doesn't affect self-defense in the home."

The Brady Campaign expects pro-gun groups to use the Supreme Court's decision in the DC case to challenge a gun ban in Chicago, the major city whose gun laws come closest to the nation's capital.

Although the Brady Campaign expects the Chicago ordinance to be challenged, it thinks that it may survive because it does not have the restrictions on long guns like the ones found in Washington, D.C.

The Chicago law may also survive because a decision in the D.C. case will likely not resolve the issue of whether the Second Amendment applies to the states and other cities that are not federal enclaves.

Looking beyond the Supreme Court's D.C. gun ban case to the race for the White House, the Brady Campaign views Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., as a better friend to gun control advocates than Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz

But given that McCain stood by his support for closing "the gun-show loophole" during a recent speech to the N.R.A., the Brady Campaign president hopes that new gun restrictions can make headway regardless of who wins in November.

"For John McCain to be the political candidate of the NRA shows how things have changed," Helmke said.

ABC News' John Santucci contributed to this report.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (Molon Labe)

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Well for starters it looks like the NRA headline is incorrect. This bill was in committee and NOW goes to the legistalture for action.

NJ hasn't (yet) banned anything. They are proposing too. Once it hits the floor it can be changed.

Next, in NYS we recently got a similiar bill withdrawn from the Assembly floor when we pointed out the flaws in the legislation regarding black powder weapons.

Thats what you need to do boys. Write the legislators who are sponsoring the legislation but also and MORE importantly write your local legislators (the one you can actually vote for). Tell them your concerns about how the legislation affects reenactors. Point out the good reenactors do for the state (living history, parades, etc.).

STAY away from the old 'second amendment' argument or you'll lose their ear. This case is NOT like the DC case (where the law is unreasonably restrictive) what you have is someone waving around a sniper rifle and equating it to ALL weapons over .50 cal. Once a law maker is educated on the difference it is easy for them to side with an amendment exempting BP weapons.

Then tell them that if they vote for the law as it stands, you won't vote for them.

And then get out and vote against them in Novemeber if they do.

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Let's keep the discussion on track. Please, don't venture too far outside of the topic.

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Well for starters it looks like the NRA headline is incorrect. This bill was in committee and NOW goes to the legistalture for action.

NJ hasn't (yet) banned anything. They are proposing too. Once it hits the floor it can be changed.

Next, in NYS we recently got a similiar bill withdrawn from the Assembly floor when we pointed out the flaws in the legislation regarding black powder weapons.

Thats what you need to do boys. Write the legislators who are sponsoring the legislation but also and MORE importantly write your local legislators (the one you can actually vote for). Tell them your concerns about how the legislation affects reenactors. Point out the good reenactors do for the state (living history, parades, etc.).

STAY away from the old 'second amendment' argument or you'll lose their ear. This case is NOT like the DC case (where the law is unreasonably restrictive) what you have is someone waving around a sniper rifle and equating it to ALL weapons over .50 cal. Once a law maker is educated on the difference it is easy for them to side with an amendment exempting BP weapons.

Then tell them that if they vote for the law as it stands, you won't vote for them.

And then get out and vote against them in Novemeber if they do.

Good post Bob. When you write your representative keep your message brief and on topic. Do not launch into rhetoric or emotional outbursts.

And please do not be like one individual on this forum was with the proposed NY legislation from several months ago, he was all set to bend over and let the powers that be stick it to him. Folks, you have to fight sometimes to keep what is rightfully yours to keep and in this case it is legal reenacting firearms that may be banned by misguided and ill informed legislation.

You cannot ignore this thinking modern politics will not enter your hobby, it already has.

[JustRob]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

As chance would have it, this bill was introduced by my State Assemblyman. It was likely prompted after a spate of shootings in the "economically depressed" areas of Trenton. Some innocent taxpayers were shot, and someone needed to do something to keep the ministers happy.

My greatest problem with the bill is that the drafters still haven't gotten the language right to protect historic reproduction firearms. Under the proposed legislation, a historic firearm that does not fire fixed ammunition is legal only so long as it is under .60 caliber. Above .60 caliber, it is classified as a prohibitted "destructive device".

They fail to understand, of course, that the bill would ban those notorious scourges of the streets: the M1842 Springfield, the Charleville and the Brown Bess. Ironically, the weapons that allowed Washington to win the Battles of First and Second Trenton, Princeton and Monmouth would be made illegal in the State.

They also mention that current owners shouldn't worry, because our weapons will be grandfathered in. Not exactly a source of consolation, given our State's track record. Just ask anyone who used to own a M-1 (not the M-1 Garand) in NJ.

As a New Jersey resident, this issue upsets me greatly. I'm gearing up the letter writing campaign, with a focus solely on the historic firearm issue. I'll be sure to post my letter once it's drafted.

I might also do a drop in on the Assemblyman's office, too.

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

Rob,

If you get a chance please point out to the representative just how many of those shootings involved firearms of .50 cal or greater. I highly suspect none of them were.

[fedguy]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

This kind of ludicrous legislation is the reason I left the People's Republic of New Jersey 18 years ago. The mega-liberal legislature constantly floats this type of proposal, hoping at least some of it sticks. We reenactors need to stand alongside all gun owners, and stop accepting that "some" guns may get banned, as long as they don't touch ours. Incrementalism has always been their tactic. Don't be fooled.

Tom Mandrackie

[Silas]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

I am thankful that the thoughtful members of the New Jersey legislature are doing their best to protect its citizens from mad people running amok with Enfields, Springfields, Charlevilles and Brown Besses. Now if only they do something about the scourge of Army and Navy Colts which don't require reloading between individual firings, then loyal, peaceful citizens of New Jersey would be truly safe.

[JimKindred]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

For those of you would would like to read the proposed legislation this link will provide it in .pdf format - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/2116_I1.PDF Page 2 line 24 is a very good starting point for your reading.

Oh, and if you thought sling shots were ok, check out page 4, line 35. :)

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: NJ Bans firearms over. 50 Caliber

I am thankful that the thoughtful members of the New Jersey legislature are doing their best to protect its citizens from mad people running amok with Enfields, Springfields, Charlevilles and Brown Besses. Now if only they do something about the scourge of Army and Navy Colts which don't require reloading between individual firings, then loyal, peaceful citizens of New Jersey would be truly safe.

Them darn Amish with their drive-by musketings and other assorted flintlockery violence have worried me for many-a-night. Good to see the legislature is taking needed action here...

-Johnny Lloyd