How dirty should we be?

[Dale Beasley]

Re: How dirty should we be?

"Saddly, I've actually been at back country events with guys who, despite the fact that clean flowing water was available and opportunity afforded itself, did not wash up because they thought being dirty was more authentic somehow. I their efforts to look kewl they totally missed out on the authentic experience of doing what they did." --AZREENACTOR

great point!

[JustRob]

Re: How dirty should we be?

So I will continue to dirty myself up prior to events, in my effort to LOOK LIKE a veteran.

There's a logical fallacy in your argument.

The original cast didn't intentionally dirty themselves up so they could look like a veteran.

If you're rolling around in the parking lot, throwing gear on the ground, and rubbing mud on yourself, you're not going to get the look right.

If you don't clean your kit between events, you might build up an appropriate layer of dirt.

For the sake of your co-workers and carpoolers, don't skip the shower a few days before the event.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: How dirty should we be?

But are we talking "Authentic-Dirt" or "Mainstream Dirt"?

[DougCooper]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I'm sorry. I really have to disagree with this statement. There is no way, no matter how much we trick ourselves or think that we are "doing it right", will we ever emulate what those men went through. To think that by playing soldier for a couple days or marching 5 miles a day in anyway shape or form comes close to it, you are sadly mistaken. We ARE playing roles. This is a hobby in which we try to look like Civil War soldiers. We are pretending. This is dress up for men and women who want to look like folks from back when. Do not fool yourselves, it is all makeup. Underneath that $200 coat you bought, is not a Civil War veteran. So I will continue to dirty myself up prior to events, in my effort to LOOK LIKE a veteran.

15 miles in 3 days? Try 15 miles a day.

Dang, there goes my bubble all a burstin'...I thought this was real life and the rest of it was just waiting around to get back to real life.

Seriously, yours is a useless statement, at least on this board. Nobody thinks it is real. We are simply trying to create and then operate in a environment that gets as close as we can. We don't pretend to be them just for the heck of it - we want to know more about them. Knowledge comes from doing.

The pretending stuff is best left for the folks who import all the comforts of the 21st century back to the 19th. I recall standing around at the Gettysburg movie while some pretty Hollywood assitant deputy assistant to the assistant director pummeled us with a bag of dirt to get just the right "look" before each take. We thought it very funny to have alternating blue and dust colored spots on our uniforms as if we had been in a dirt clod fight. We told her what they really needed was a dust cloud generator we could walk through for an hour till we all turned an equal shade :D

22 miles in 100 deg heat in 12 hours got me feeling pretty close to CW dirty. Marching and sleeping in knee deep mud for 3 days ditto. So did marchin' and chasin' and shootin' and picketin' and eatin' and sleepin' (a little) over 5 days got me feeling pretty close too (BGR).

On the compendium of things to know about the real boys on my list, exactly how dirty they got ranks pretty low.

I invite your attention back to Curt's, Troy's, Rob's, Dale's and other reasoned response on the efficacy of the immortal pre-event roll in the dirt.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Well Doug,

No-one can say your a "Stick in the Mud"

This has been the most entertaining thread in along time.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Hallo!

"This has been the most entertaining thread in along time."

Moderator Hat on...

Kinda, sorta, and maybe for the wrong reasons though.

Some of this thread smacks of Farbery and Militant Farbisim outside of the standards of the AC Forum, and does not belong on this board.

Rein those horses in please.

Thanks.

Curt
Just back from helping a H/A Newcomer with Gilham's Mess

[lukegilly13]

Re: How dirty should we be?

There's a logical fallacy in your argument.
The original cast didn't intentionally dirty themselves up so they could look like a veteran.

Very good point! Unless we have documentation that original soldiers "dirty themselves" before a battle, then dirtying yourself would be farbalistic.
This reminds me of the all time quote of the great reenactor Farbistotle....
"If it existed in the mid 1800's then it is okay."

Yes, dirt existed and soldiers were dirty. But no, they didn't shower themselves with dirt to look like veteran soldiers. I think to make your kit authentic for an event where the company portrayed had been on campaign for weeks...to achieve the proper dirt level you would have to have your kit experience the campaign. Theoretically, you would be more authentic if you came home from work, built a fire, and set beside it in your uniform every evening (before and after the sun goes down of course to achieve fading). Then leave your kit outside covered up by your blanket/coverlet as it would be if you were sleeping. Not sure how you could simulate the wear and tear of a march other than marching. Maybe the only realistic way is to use the kit on campaign and accumulate about three weeks worth of "campaign deposits" and use that kit for long campaign events. Then you would need a seperate kit for garissoned events. Just a thought.

[Strawfoot]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I'm not quite sure how to respond to this thread, but I'll say this... In the years I've been re-enacting I've never seen a guy resemble a civil war soldier, or rather what I'd percieve a civil war soldier to look and act like, more than TJ Bruegger. Nope. A grungier, filthier, more disheveled individual I have never seen...


Mike Phineas
Arlington, TX

[coastaltrash]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I have always LOVED the book "Struggle for Chattanooga" for some of its hidden bits of historical information. One always caught my eye and gave me a quiet chuckle:

"On another occasion when at Bellbuckle, Tn, one Sunday morning we were out for inspection and the General (Cleburne) himself came slowly down the line Everything went well until he came to Ben Stewart of my company Ben was not noted for keeping a clean gun The General took the gun, examined it critically then handing it back he looked Ben in the face with a reproachful expression in his eyes and said; 'I hope I do you no injustice, my man, but I don't think you have washed your face for several days.' After that Ben's gun and face were always ready for inspection"

Now call me a crazy Army of Tennessee-Cleburne Loving junky, but I don't think there is a greater example of Veteran soldier than Hardee's Corps.

[JustRob]

Re: How dirty should we be?

For the record, there is not a jacket or set of trousers that I've washed more than once in twelve years of reenacting.

The last time I washed my trousers was because they were contaminated with poison ivy. Suffice to say, the wash water was jet black. Heck, even the rise water was black.

I would go with the patina of dirt you accumulate over time. Cuffs won't get clean, and leather and rust stains won't come out. It's a nice lived in look.

Of course, you could also mimic Soup Bone, who hasn't washed his issue shirt in over a decade. That thing smells like the south end of a northbound horse. At least a 15 Hobo factor. Most homeless people smell better.

[AZReenactor]

Re: How dirty should we be?

15 miles in 3 days? Try 15 miles a day.

Not in this terrain and these conditions, but perhaps next spring for the event I'm putting together that will have us marching 20 miles across the desert between historic water points on a section of the old overland Stage road. The war on the frontier was not the same as the war back in civilization.

At least for our unit, we are to busy doing the best we can to walk in their footsteps for a few days at a time to worry much about superficial matters like how dirty one looks on the surface.I'm not saying you can't make being dirty an issue for you and your group, but my personal opinion is to make that an issue is often an indicator someone is sitting back and gazing at the forest without ever marching forward to the point where it is possible to appreciate the individual trees.

Topics like these are generally the kind fellows like to argue about because at the end of the day it all comes down to personal opinion and choices with little more basis needed than what someone thinks. It is nice to see at least a few historic references making it into the discussion.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: How dirty should we be?

The last time I washed my trousers was because they were contaminated with poison ivy. Suffice to say, the wash water was jet black. Heck, even the rise water was black.

I once had poison ivy contamination on an RD jacket. Fortunately, I have a friend in the hobby who's also in the dry cleaning biz. He just dipped the jacket in a solvent take. It dissolved the oil from the ivy, but left all the dirt on the jacket. :wink_smil

On the dirt thing:
I'm probably in Rob's category. I've worn the same CS frock to most events I've attended since 2003 or 04. It has been used as a pillow, ground cloth, dish towell, and many other "non-garment fucntions". However, I have folks tell me that I look "too clean". Dirt just doesn't show on that coat. There are stains and even some spilled candle wax on it. However, I don't plan to "dirty it up" just so I can look "more hardcore".

[JustRob]

Re: How dirty should we be?

John,

John, I think we have the same coat.

The regimental books of the 69th NYVV from late '64/early '65 have an entry where the adjutant observed that that the guard detail failed to report to the headquarters tent with white gloves. An order was issued to correct the oversight. They were in the trenches of Petersburg at the time.

[JACKSONVC]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I cannot quite remember the source but I distinctly remember reading a passage years ago about the Confederate Army passing through Frederick Maryland, I believe on their way to Sharpsburg, someone mentioned just how dirty the soldiers were but how clean their weapons were kept. They also had a swagger that the Northern troops seemed to lack.

As to actually rolling about in the dirt, well, the soldiers of the time were filthy with lice, sweat, dirt, grime, grease and about every other filth known to man out of necessity, not for their enjoyment. Rest assured, sitting around a fire and roasting greybacks because you are lousy is not enjoyable and would not be to anyone's comfort to even attempt to recreate.

As far as that lived in look, yes, by all means we should attempt to portray what the typical Union or Confederate Soldier looked like either on Campaign or in Garrision. Mind you, there is an acceptable level of the "necessary evil" when on campaign that is not at all acceptable while in camp or garrision. If you do not believe me, ask any former First Sergeant, he can and will educate you more fully than can I.

I can say from a personal experience of some 20 plus years in the army that some men pride themselves on being clean at all times, and others are very proud of their vile smells and offensive appearance.

[Charles Heath]

Re: How dirty should we be?

This is the short version:

The Rebel feet are on our shore,
Maryland, my Maryland!
I smell 'em half a mile or more,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Their shockless hordes are at my door,
Their drunken generals on my floor,
What now can sweeten Baltimore?
Maryland, my Maryland!

2. Hark to our noses' dire appeal,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Oh unwashed Rebs, to you we kneel!
Maryland, my Maryland!
If you can't purchase soap, oh steal
That precious article - I feel
Like scratching from the head to heel,
Maryland, my Maryland!

3. You're covered thick with mud and dust,
Maryland, my Maryland!
As though you'd been upon a bust,
Maryland, my Maryland!
Remember, it is scarcely just,
To have a filthy fellow thrust
Before us, till he's been scrubbed fust,
Maryland, my Maryland!

4. I see no blush upon thy cheek,
Maryland, my Maryland!
It's not been washed for many a week,
Maryland, my Maryland!
To get thee clean - 'tis truth I speak -
Would dirty every stream and creek,
From Potomac to Chesapeake,
Maryland, my Maryland!

I'm thinking Corporal Carter really and truly needs to take charge of a laundry and arse washing detail in a few weeks at a certain event in Pennsylvania. If only the pretty gals in Winchester will send us some soap!