How dirty should we be?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Hallo!

"On the dirt thing: I'm probably in Rob's category. I've worn the same CS frock to most events I've attended since 2003 or 04. It has been used as a pillow, ground cloth, dish towell, and many other "non-garment fucntions". However, I have folks tell me that I look "too clean". Dirt just doesn't show on that coat. There are stains and even some spilled candle wax on it. However, I don't plan to "dirty it up" just so I can look "more hardcore".

Hey!

I think I have a couple of jackets and a frock coat made out of the same material. (Confederate Teflon Jean).

It seems immune to most everything. I even experiemented with various dustings and muds mixed from light and dark soil in my yard, as well as blackpowder grime. It looks "great" for 5 minutes.

"You look too clean!" is all I hear. And even when it looks "great," while strolling and posing in Sutlers' Row, it is both amazing and distressing to see how 35mm and Digital cameras actually REMOVE the look of dirt and grime!
Dang!

Any suggestions as to how I can look better in Sutlers' Row? I heard old dirty motor oil makes a realistic stain that lasts and lasts?

Curt
Never has washed or warshed any items of clothing since 1974 Mess

[EVOC]

Re: How dirty should we be?

It may have been Wolseley whose face betrayed some surprise when he saw how ragged were the breeches of Hood's men after their first files had passed in review. "Never mind the raggedness, Colonel," Lee said quietly, "the enemy never sees the backs of my Texans."

The quote is one of the inscriptions on the monument to Hood's Texas Brigade at the Texas Capitol.

[JustRob]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I can say from a personal experience of some 20 plus years in the army that some men pride themselves on being clean at all times, and others are very proud of their vile smells and offensive appearance.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Hallo!

"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because smelly men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Curt
As an officer, did not stink Mess

[flattop32355]

Re: How dirty should we be?

There are stories of Sherman's men on the march through North Carolina being so soot covered from burning pine knot fires and marching through burning pine forests that colored troops near Goldsboro mistook them for other USCT troops.

Other reports of Buell's men marching for Kentucky in autumn '62 and Federal troops in western Virginia's mountains during winter '61-62 show very ragged Union men.

Much depends upon when and where for both North and South.
It was also possible to have brand new articles and rags at the same time, depending upon what clothing supplies had made it to a particular regiment.

[Jimmayo]

For your reading enjoyment.

This is part of a letter published in "No Soap, No Pay Dirrhea, Dysentery & Desertion" edited by Jeff Toalson.

The date of this letter puts it near the end of Grant's Overland campaign of 64. Both armies were probably setting the record for being dirty and funky from continuous fighting and marching.

June 12, 1864
Camp near Chickahominy River, Va.
Pvt James M. Rawlings, Rockbridge Art.

“and now on the bank of the Chickahominy we have to drink the most miserable swamp water, that tastes as if were greasy: and the other day I want to the river to bathe and found the river so filthy with a greasy scum on it from the mass of human bodies bathing that I was disgusted and went back. My clothes were so dirty that to get rid of the vermin I took them off and boiled them while I went without any.”

[Dale Beasley]

Re: How dirty should we be?

We were moving about 50 cows down a dirt road yesterday. By the time we finished pushing them I was covered in dust. Reminded me of convoy over-there...just think about marching behind a division of soldiers...now that would be dirty.

[Son of Eire]

Re: How dirty should we be?

As the story is normally told these teamsters are in cast-off garments. There are stains and plenty of mud around the hems, but none of those streaky hard-kewl mud spots. This is only one case of how uniforms would have aged, but it's a good indicator of what hard sevice would do.

[Guy Gane III]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Nearly every spot that could get dirty is mentioned but one.... your right shoulder/armpit.

But then again... dust settles, mud flakes off and grease sets in. Federals, generally, would certainly look cleaner than Rebs because of the uniform. Rebs would be filthy looking because a vast majority wore lighter colored clothing. ALL SMELLED LIKE HELL.

If you want to have a clean uniform, stick to doing living histories and going to "balls". :wink_smil

(Sorry I had to add this...) Want to see what it looks like to wear the uniform and how dirty it gets after a month? Go donate some clothes to a homeless person and ask them to meet you at the spot you saw him in a month. If he shows up, then you'll get a good look at a month's wear and tear and you'll be doing a good deed. Okay, I'm done.

[DougCooper]

Re: How dirty should we be?

"Best in show" for getting a uniform just the right used look must go to a comrade who left his CD jacket out in a hurricane. When he looked out after storm passage, local dog was trotting off with the jacket. Jacket was retrieved and had some nice tears, lots of ground in mud and a bit of dog spit. Nice :D

[Bummer]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Having been on many LRRPs in my time in the army where we would be out weeks on end campaigning for real, I found myself getting pretty grubby, but I always tried to wash my hands and socks. I noticed many things very simliar to hard core reenacting. One of the things is that any little scratch or cut on the skin (especially hands) would become festered if you didn't take care of it (anticeptic--which the Civil War soldier as a rule didn't have). I have no wonder that 19th century people thought that infection was a normal part of the healing process--because almost all wounds of any size did.
Another thing I noticed is that barring some mishap like falling in a creek or something, the dirt wasn't so noticable on the uniform--even after weeks, but rather there gets to be an overall 'patina' of grubbyness; shiny collars, sweatstains, and so on rather than mud spots. Even when lowcrawling into a position and getting all covered, a day or so later the mudspots would wear off.
For what it's worth comparing actual soldiering to reenacting--and I think soldiering in any period has much similarities to be observed--I never saw much in the way of 'artful splotches' so much as just an overall funk.
If I may borrow a quote from a well known poster...'Others milage may vary', so perhaps some other infantry veterans here might wish to weigh in with their experiences in the field for weeks on end.

[Drygoods]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Getting dirty clothes at events is natural, it just happens. But folks who rub dirt on themselves to look worse, why? Do you like to look like that with your everyday clothes too? I think that most soldiers made the effort to keep as clean as possible. If you have a social event, clean yourself up as best as you can or don't attend. Last Friday I went to a social gathering and found that a fellow there had such filth and odor that at 40 feet away I could still smell his BO.:tounge_sm Gag, nobody should work that hard at being dirty.:sarcastic

[Becky Morgan]

Re: How dirty should we be?

This excellent discussion leads to a question I asked a couple of crashes ago: what are the normal points of failure on garments, and where are the normal dirt catchers? From years of doing grubby work, I expect work clothes (and soldiering is, if nothing else, hard work) to have:
dirty and possibly worn-out knees, dirt on seat and elbows, hems/cuffs of pants and skirts
dirt, sweat stains and body ordor on armpits (long before deodorant) and crotch area
dirt on collar
gunpowder residue on right side of collar and shoulder
wear from backpack straps and regular wear area of other leathers
Working-class women are apt to have work sleeves and little holes from popping coals, since we were usually the ones bending over the stove or fireplace.
I would expect those who handled hot metal to show a lot of pinholes in sleeves and lower pants legs, though probably not to the extent of a modern welder's Swiss-cheesed fabric.

Is this roughly accurate?
In other words, I don't see how rolling in dirt would get the real effect, and as for the Hollywood girl fluffing dirt on soldiers to simulate a dusty march, I'm not sure that would leave the right pattern, either.

Corrections welcome.

[Bummer]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Don't forget the greasy collar (and hat bands). Collars seem to me to be the most nasty place on dirty clothes--also one of the first places to truly wear out (outside right at the shoulder on shirts) and fray. It's funny, in movies they always fray the points and outside edges of collars while attempting to make someone look grubby, yet it is the top folded edge of the collar right at the back of the neck that gets the nastiest--long before any other part.

[JustRob]

Re: How dirty should we be?

This excellent discussion leads to a question I asked a couple of crashes ago: what are the normal points of failure on garments, and where are the normal dirt catchers? From years of doing grubby work, I expect work clothes (and soldiering is, if nothing else, hard work) to have:
dirty and possibly worn-out knees, dirt on seat and elbows, hems/cuffs of pants and skirts
dirt, sweat stains and body ordor on armpits (long before deodorant) and crotch area
dirt on collar
gunpowder residue on right side of collar and shoulder
wear from backpack straps and regular wear area of other leathers

Becky,

In my experience, the cuffs of drawers and shirts retain heavy dirt stains. Trouser knees stain, especially the right knee.

Trouser cuffs stain some, but not as badly as the cotton of shirts & drawers. The front of the right thigh can retain dirt, since that's where you wipe your hands, unless you are scupulous with a towel like I am.

Candlewax gets on sleeves and can drip down the leg. Adamantine candles are tough to get out of wool (much more so than beeswax).

Accouterments can leave stains if the leather dye leaches out. Trouser buttons & suspender buckles will rust and leave their mark.

You will likely leave large sweat stains inside your jacket. This yields interesting marks if you wear your knapsack often.