How dirty should we be?

[Indianabugles]

Re: How dirty should we be?

I actually read this, looked at some photos and then went and visited my uniform where it hangs in the garage. I do love that subtle camp smell it has, that faded au de threetypesofwoodsmokeandrancidgunpowder, never been washed, just breeze dried, hence why it lives, by spoucal decree, in the garage.
But what really struck me was the points of dirt. I have seen photos of people who have mocked dirt and it seems universally spread, all of face, front of pants etc.
But my pants after several years of abuse do not have dirt on the front of thigh! (I suspect this is because I wear a frock coat) On the knee and round the hem yes, impact and splash. Even grass stains on the arse but nothing on the front of thigh or calf.
Frock coat is the same, elbows are stained, flanks where wet hands are wiped and collars and cuffs. The front is more or less free of anything other than a light fading and a coffee stain. Worth pointing out a darker band that goes diagonally across and I have seen this on several veteran members frocks going both ways. This is where haversack straps and Cartridge box straps have prevented the material from sun bleaching and protected it leaving it a very nice fresh looking, three shades darker than the rest of the coat, big X on the chest, which is also dirt free.
And dirty encrusted faces. Why? The usual back eyeliner look and tash of powder which occur and perhaps a dirty forehead where a mucky cuff has been pulled across it.
Have to agree with Robert and crew on this one. If you want to get dirty and stay so fine, but let it occur naturally as otherwise it looks faked.
I personally like to wash in the morning with cold water and change my shirt as it sets me up for the rest of the day feeling better. I would feel tacky otherwise.

Christian Sprakes
19th regimental Musician and Bugler

[Becky Morgan]

Re: How dirty should we be?

See, I forgot about the rust. 21st-century fasteners seldom stain garments, but 19th-century buckles and such did it all the time. I also forgot about the worn elbow on the non-diominant side of a garment worn by a woman my age with a stiff back. That's where we lean on things when we bend over. I reckon you'd find that with men too.

Wasn't it on Appomattox morning that General Gordon said one of Lee's staff had washed his hands and face in a puddle with too much red clay in it? In his attempt to clean up, he had turned red enough that Lee teased him about being a red Indian. The human desire to get clean sometimes trumps common sense.

To sum up, is it fair to say that if you want your uniform or dress to look road-weary or fought in, you should probably wear it around your property and mimic the movements you'd be making in the days leading up to the battle or event? (It might be good to make an exception: if you're going to join my folks in Sherman's bunch, it's likely best to avoid sacking your neighbors' houses and burning down a subdivision or two.) It may not be advisable to grab a few material possessions and run down the road for a few miles--most roads are too well paved to do much good along those lines anyhow, besides increasing the probability that your neatly faded calico might be defaced by tire tracks up the back--but it's certainly possible to wear a dress around the house while you're working, or wear a uniform out in the back yard while you're doing chores. If you need the marks that, say, prone firing would leave, you could do that easily enough at a shooting range. Once again, your range officer might give you a few strange looks if you haul in a few logs to build breastworks, but some of them would understand.

In short, fake won't work, but real work might.

[PvtHull48thovi]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Heres my take on it, I am only 18 years old and Have been re enacting since I was 3 with my family, but I am now a vetern in my unit. After events like De Ridder Louisiana where it rains every event, to Pleasant Hill Louisiana to Gettysburg, Ive learned what it was like to get god awful dirty and grungy! Most events I go to in or around my area, we usually get there on Thursday. I have never once takin a whole out bath at an event, but I usually try to keep my hands and face CLEAN, I dont know about all yall but clean hands usually means you wont have authentic disentary. I am pretty sure that soldiers, on both sides would have tried to clean up when they could, on a campaigne, sure you dont care after a while, but there is nothin that can make you feel like a human being as being a little clean after bein dirty for a few days and nights. Sure they didnt wash up every day, and to the whole rebs always bein dirty. I personally believe that the rebs would have tried there very best to clean up when ever they could and I am sure that both armies were probably the same in the aspect of how clean they were.

And to the whole aspect of draggin your gear and uniforms through the mud to make you more authentic, The soldiers didnt do it so why should I. I let time do that. After every event I tend to wash anything that I can wash(i.e. shirts, socks, underdrawers, and my linen pants I use for my confederate impression.) Every thing else, I let it be.


These are my two cents worth.

[Foust JW]

Re: How dirty should we be?

My mind boggles that the topic was brought up, let alone there are now 7 pages of discussion on this topic...possibly 8 now that I add to it.

I can't touch any of my gear that I don't get "dirty". From blackening on leathers, to any substance on the weapons, just organizing stuff into storage or packing for a event leaves a certain smell on the hands and a black line of dirt under freshly clipped fingernails.

I just read what a certain WWII dealer had to say

This may be news, but Europe, Russia and I think the rest of the world have something called "dirt." Dirt is everywhere, under everything. Your feet (unless you're a gymnast or that chick on the internet), the grass, under the roads, on the hills and in the valleys. War, that thing that soldiers are involved in, throws lots of dirt around. Worse, when it rains, dirt becomes mud. Mud is very dirty. Mud turns everything brown, gray or even black. Soldiers are generally outside most of the time...when it rains they don't get to quit and go home until it stops. Consequently, war is very, very dirty. Are you with me so far?

OK, to look the part, you should not be very clean. Not that all soldiers are inherently piggish, but they often have no chance to wash themselves or their uniforms (or helmets) for days, weeks or months at a time. I know some of you have only seen mud and rain on the TV...but trust me, it's there. Lots of it. Don't wash your stuff. For God's sake, don't press it. There's nothing more fruity than an SS Grenadier, loaded for bear, with creased trousers. Geek! Maintain your gear, oil the leather, patch the holes, oil and clean your weapons. Clean skivvies and an undershirt are OK. You can't see them. You don't have to stink, but that's realistic too.
Rollin Curtis

http://www.atthefront.com/rants.htm

Match the degree of decrepitude to the period being portrayed. Again, that "R" word.

Thanks,
Joel Foust

[Drygoods]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Like the previous author, I'm amazed that this thread has gone on so many pages. In my view, and perhaps one that was shared long ago, even the poor and lowly would have made an attempt to tidy themselves when leaving home and on the road. Would you let some stranger, a dirty bummer, into your house? Not many of us welcome those panhandler's and homeless into our house and the reason for that is that they frighten us. People then and now who keep a shield of dirt on them look mad, crazy, perhaps drunkards, as though their priorities are not what others share. Say whatever you will, but then and now, few folks welcome these strangers into their home with open arms. Consequently, although this is a bit of a ramble, I'll reinterate that people did make an effort to keep themselves clean, such as; washing their hands and face, shaving, combing their hair, brushing their clothes, and polishing their shoes. My Mother used to say that you could tell everything about a person by the condition of their shoes, and more often than not, you can/could.

Yes, although many of us donate to those knight's of the road, few of us are willing to give them a shower and accomodation when you can smell them coming at you 50 feet away. So why is it that we do not see more soldiers cleaning each other's coats with brushes, shaving at events, cutting their hair, and washing up? I'd much rather see that every day than to see those dirty hands swilling bottles and playing cards because it's rest time. Filth leaves the wrong impression for the public, especially school children. So why purposely promote the wrong impression that either side of the country was made of filthy bumpkins?:confused_ Last, if your coat stinks at the event, wash it, and wear it dry.

[1stMo Drummer]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Alright after reading 7 pages of this i suppose ill chime in with my .02...
I am one of those said "hard kewls" who appreciates the fact that my gear is dirty, and in my mind more authentic so to speak. To thsoe of you who say let it happen naturaly, i have to dis-agree because as T.J. has said twice. WE DO NOT LIVE ON CAMPAIGN 24/7/365. Yes men would have LIKED to stay clean but the fact is when your on the march and see a stream you cnat just say "Hey sarg ima stop here and freshin up a bit, catcha later". And often when they made camp they were so hungry and tired food and sleep was the only thign on their mind. I read once, and i wish i could remember what book it was in. It was talking of these Missouri Brigade (confederate) soldiers who happen to stop in a town for the night. All the local women got together and had a small welcoming party somwhat for them, but many of the men were ashamed to attend for they reeked so terribly. And that was when there were young southern girls wanting them to...But they couldnt get the dirt and stink off them.
My point is that no matter how much you sya the soldiers wouldnt have been looking like a "dirt bag" they did.. And by not just splashing mud on my stuff. My laying it in the dirt then stepping on it and walking on it and grinding the dirt into it it gets that "patina". And for those who wash their clothes, i.e. shirts, overshirts etc.., because they men would
have, well the men of '61 woudl have stayed in a motel 8 and driven to gettysburg if they could have but they couldnt..
My god i just realized how much ive typed. '
Off the soap-box. Im done. :tounge_sm

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Hi,

I would agree with Travis, we do not live in our uniforms, as did the soldiers of the Civil War. I add a little dirt and greasy stains to new pieces of clothing beofore taking them out into the field. I find the best way, is to do actual work in them. My family owns a farm, so when I have an new uniform I will take it out there, and just dig a hole for a hour or two. To get the look of campaigned in. Just my 2 cents.

[PvtHull48thovi]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Well to those of you out there who dont wash your shirts and undies, and socks, good look with the smell and I hope that at least keeps the bugs off you, cause lord knows I do and I am proud to admit it.

I believe I am up to 4 cents now! :)

[1stMo Drummer]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Ha well you know you smell like a campaigner when the bugs dont bother you...:D
But the fly's seem to think of you like a giant buffet.
Oh well i think everybody has had a chance to voice their opinion on this one.
Like has been said before its all back to personal choice. I dont was my shirt because those boys didnt get to wash theirs that often, and with me out only 2-3 days at a time, a years worth of events adds up to only a couple weeks in their life.

[Drygoods]

Re: How dirty should we be?

This might seem like a dumb question, and it likely is, but if you want to have your clothes look well worn, can't you just wear them at home while doing your chores? If I want an outfit to look worn out, and have burn holes round the skirt, I just wear it doing work around the house, particularly in winter. Oddly enough, my boys got into the habit of wearing their frocks and brogans to school, even shell jackets at times, to the point that I had to make two more simply for friends to wear. It had that kewl factor. Even today, the boys wear full length army coats to college when it rains.

So you have clothes that have worn spots, but I always got after the boys so that their garments were not rank with odor. Nobody wants to share that.:confused_

[KPavia]

Re: How dirty should we be?

My .02 is that if I was to look totally unpresentable and stink to the point that I scare people away at a living history, then, in my opinion, my impression, despite whats "authentic," defeats the whole purpose of living history, which for me is teaching other people history from the view point of a common foot soldier. If my smell, or looks, detract from being able to teach people, then I'm a hindrance to the program.

If its an immersion event without public, then I won't care that much but I'll still wash my underwear and shirts when I get home.

But overall, naturally, I don't enjoy being dirty. So I'll be clean even if the men of the mid 19th century couldn't be so as aften as I can.

[Possum Stew]

Re: How dirty should we be?

Doing house chores is not even close to 200 miles of hiking. Doing yard work isn't close to 200 miles of walking, sleeping and eating in the dirt. I really don't think many folks posting on here have even come close to walking anything close to that far. I have. I think the longest anyone one here posted about being outside was what, 2 weeks? I live in the woods everyday. Thats where I live. I sleep in a hammock outdoors everynight. I cut firewood everyday to cook with. I grow my own food in a garden. I'm filthy from just my daily chores. I also spent 2YEARS of my life traveling over across the US sleeping under bridges and in ditches. I KNOW how dirty you can get. It is impossible to achive the level of scum needed by just "wearing your gear around the house", or "letting it happen naturally". Wearing your kit for 2 days a few times a year and calling it "campaigned in" is, well, farby. This isn't about looking cool, it's about acurately portraying history. Correct, soldiers didn't rub dirt all over themselves, but they also didn't shape their Hardee hats under the faucet in their bathtubs, buy their clothes off the AC, or drive to the battles. Those are the things we do to get the look and feel of what we are striving to portray. Maybe before you all comment on other's impressions, try taking a look at your own. Let the backlash begin. :)

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: How dirty should we be?

T.J. Bruegger

Doing house chores is not even close to 200 miles of hiking. Doing yard work isn't close to 200 miles of walking, sleeping and eating in the dirt. I really don't think many folks posting on here have even come close to walking anything close to that far. I have. I think the longest anyone one here posted about being outside was what, 2 weeks? I live in the woods everyday. Thats where I live. I sleep in a hammock outdoors everynight. I cut firewood everyday to cook with. I grow my own food in a garden. I'm filthy from just my daily chores. I also spent 2YEARS of my life traveling over across the US sleeping under bridges and in ditches. I KNOW how dirty you can get. It is impossible to achive the level of scum needed by just "wearing your gear around the house", or "letting it happen naturally". Wearing your kit for 2 days a few times a year and calling it "campaigned in" is, well, farby. This isn't about looking cool, it's about acurately portraying history. Correct, soldiers didn't rub dirt all over themselves, but they also didn't shape their Hardee hats under the faucet in their bathtubs, buy their clothes off the AC, or drive to the battles. Those are the things we do to get the look and feel of what we are striving to portray. Maybe before you all comment on other's impressions, try taking a look at your own. Let the backlash begin.
__________________
T.J. Bruegger
Tater Mess

Hi,

I totally agree with your statement. We can never get as dirty as these soldiers really were, without doing every thing they did. That is why I do not mind putting dirt on my uniform and working out side in it. I am sure I will not be nearly as dirty as they were, but I figure that it is more authentic to have some dirt than no dirt.

[23rdIllinoisIrish]

Re: it's not how dirty should we be, but how dirty can you get?

Is there a way to travel back in time to those so-oft mentioned days of the AC as a research forum? Good God! What a thread.

[Curt Schmidt]

Dr. Phil's Life Law #1

Hallo!

Moderator Hat on...

While there has been some very good discussion, and valid and sound points offered and made... it has also drifted into Farbery and below the standards of the AC Forum.

Before it can drift further into the 'Y'all don't use live ammunition and suffer real wounds and death, or y'all don't eat rancid pork or wormy hardtack or y'all ain't got dysentary or typhoid... it is past time it be closed.

Curt
Moderator