What would you like to experiance at future events?

[Michael Comer]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

A week long COI based in early 1861 with new recruits mustering in and going through the routine day and drill of learning to be a soldier. Or, a week long garrison or event. Drill, fatigue, drill, guard, drill, instruction. I mean really run it like it would have been done - even down to the bureaucratic red tape.

Mainly something that takes longer than a weekend so one gets more of a feel for the monotony and routine that occupied so much of a soldier's life at the time. One of the things that makes events like BGR and Piney Woods so attractive to me is the length of time involved. Saturday morning to Sunday noon doesn't really give one much of a feel for things.

[Charles Heath]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

Not sure what an event organizer could provide that has not been performed already.

To use Pat's example. The sad part is the hobby probably has 100 fellows wishing they could do a Vicksburg NPS LH event with opposed firing, yet they have no idea what happened last year, or that they could and should have attended, sweated, and enjoyed the tickles of playful mosquitoes. While mentioning Vicksburg specifically, I'm not picking on it, but just usuing it as an example of events that have been done in the recent past, but the average Joe has no concept that these things really are done, and those scenarios and vignettes that haven't been offered recently, might as well not have been offered ever. If anything, this same thread posted before the "Last Great Forum Crash" had a long, long, list of things people wanted to see, and the vast majority of those had been offered in the past ten years, and, in the spirit of "no reenactor left behind," an allegedly large segment of the hobby abstains from reading AARs from events they didn't attend, so outside of their small circle of events, they have no idea as to what has or what has not been offered.

Some of the answer to the question is "We haven't done this in a while. Should we do this again?" In using the ten year reference, and with apologies to that famous movie line, "ten years is a whole lotta time." Heck, with the way folks zip in and zip out of the revolving door, three years is a long time.

Wick and Pukin' Bill, if you want a long walk, shoot Hank or myself an email. We enjoyed the one in May 2007, and the one in October 2008 should be as enjoyable, and, perhaps somewhat cooler in the higher elevations. Lots of walking and fieldcraft. Few surprises. Might get wet, cold, sore, and bloody.

- One of the fellows mentions doing a river crossing (not in this thread, but in the usual mid-Atlantic event think tank) and that isn't the typical ankle deep creek fording, or the fun certain fellows had during a movie shoot with the pontoons. Crossing the Potomac at historical locations has been done many times, and a local SCV camp has an annual commemoration a little closer to DC. High water can be problematic.

- Another mentioned a train ride on flats and boxes to a battle reenactment. That is coming along this year, but it is part of a mainstream event, so that may or may not appeal to everyone. I think I said that nicely, and managed to leave out references to the train robbery type events at Arcade, Middletown, and elsewhere; however, just taking a ride on a mule drawn canal boat is a good experience, as is a trip on a stern or sidewheeler riverboat. Some opportunities may exist in your own backyard. I'd still like to float the James River in a bateaux, but that's subject matter for another era, and the annual races are pretty cool in their own way.

- Artillery fire on a passing boat? Yep, and received return fire (1996, 1997, 1998). Not to upset the "chair is a horse crowd," but a shad boat target would suffice in these modern times. Something a little bigger would be fun (I don't mean the USACOE dredge either), but let's not go to the Loch Overnight example of miniature ironclads. Cute, but....

- Overtaking and looting the enemies camp or wagons? Recent events have had wagons guarded over several miles, and a well known sutler raid on a wagon (2006), and Shiloh 1997 had us leaving "offerings" for the rebs to scoop up. I'd mention some other instances, but the statute of limitations may or may not apply in all instances.

Let's pluck a few chickens:

What about the experience of actually enlisting in the Military at the time. Such as clothing and equipment issue and the transition from civilian to soldier.

The mustering and training camp events happen often enough and with 1861 rolling around soon, the rump year of 2010 and the cycle renewal year of 2011 might be full of them. Our last one was the Camp Curtin event maybe in 2002, and the next one is slated for April 2009. Paul's "Hundred Man Company" event at Crabill House had some great details, but when offered to the hobby at large, the amount of interest in actually registering and attending was nil. As a twist on this, the gathering of CS parolees at Harris Homestead (correc me if I'm wrong on the location, since I didn't attend) was a nice concept. Gribble Deese has a Fort Moultrie militia event that may partially satisfy this craving -- in December 2008.

Building stuff. Sinks, buildings, fences, etc.

Yep, and how about tearing down stuff such as a couple hundred yards of fences (2006) or burning fence rails (2003, 2004) and all that goes with it. I understand some buildings will be burned in the future, and even the Lynchburg event had a house fire a couple of years ago. We won't repeat the story of burning the wrong barn here, as everyone has heard that one a few hundred times.

- Confederate winter camp. The late Ripley Robinson would be proud, and so would the folks at Rainbow Banks, and the Stonewall Brigade's annual affair, as well as the smaller efforts at Falmouth. The Hard Case Boys were trying to get a few cabins built at Raymond at one point, and someone was going to do something near Grenada, and so on and so forth. Far from being over done, this is a great project, and one that can serve many other uses. The hard part is actually moving from brain storm to execution, which is the beauty of Newfane with all the warts and moles that go with it. When we did the 18th Georgia winter camp (2002, 2006), the Texas brigade images were very useful.

"....I've always wanted to do a 15-20 mile march in ONE day."

Not just a single day, but go for that over a 4 or 5 day period as fun, too. Maybe Doug will get his next Sixth Corps march on the calendar in time for folks to rearrange their schedules, but in the meantime I liked the 119-mile trek on mostly dirt surface last year, and look forward to something similar in a couple of months. Even if that doesn't appeal, the annual Harper's Ferry to Sharpsburg march is always out there -- or has that gone by the wayside? Silas generally tacks on a campaigner adjunct when he comes back east for mainstream events, and this year was no exception. You'd think with the scads and scads of campaigners, progressives, and hardcores in the NY, PA, and MD area that he'd have more takers. Maybe these efforts need to hit the light of day earlier than they do.

An entire event convalescing in a large general hopital setting like Camp Joe Holt outside Louisville.

On a much smaller scale, an event in August 2008 and another in November 2008 provide a glimpse into this, as did the Burkittsville 2001 hospital in an actual CW hospital (church) building. One of the things we read about so often is the wounded being moved from a forward cut-n-sew station to something more substantial in the rear, and that may happen fairly soon, too. None of the above examples are the same as the Louisville hospital, but what a neat idea.

Loot and burn a plantation. Perhaps not as unrealistic to do as it may sound at first.

And whatever you do don't build a taco stand from fire resistant plywood and call it the burning of the Chancellor House. That was pretty bad. Enough VFD training projects exist out there, so that this isn't all that unrealistic at all, and the Lynchburg example wasn't all that long ago.

An event centered around c1864 veteran reenlistment furloughs...Either from the point of view of leaving the camps on furlough or arriving at some destination during the furlough (would justify impressions from different regiments).

Or the oft mentioned Willard Hotel event concept, but that is mostly in jest. The description of the 1st Minn fellows heading home on the Mississippi while adorned in buffalo robes after their enlistments expired makes for an interesting scene. The furlough scenario rings of a Missouri massacre, too. Oops, more trains.

I'd like to experience an entire company, or better yet a battalion in winter quarters complete with officers' huts, sinks, sutler's etc.

Maybe J-Honey Lloyd will compose an "Ode to Winter 1864." I only attended three of them, but each one was a vastly different event.

An event centered around service in a divisional supply train.

The wagon train hobby (yes, there is one) and the CW hobby seem to intersect once in a while, but not very often. Several of the Death March events have had wagons, and any wounded who have had to slosh around in a wagon at those events can only wonder at what the original cast when through. The photographs Butch Myers has from the Sailor's Creek events (back in the day when folks were still wearing a whole bunch of original stuff) show wagons lined up on the road from the bridge towards the Kershaw's hasty works in the vicinity of the old jeep trail. The logistics required to make this happen boggles the mind, and the honorarium for wagons isn't taken lightly.

Construction event. Could be centered around building a blockhouse guarding a rail crossing, or digging earthenwork fortifications.

Plugging the gap in the earthworks made Fort Granger special. I made it a point to revisit the fort for that very reason last December. At a 2008 event some fellows will have the opportunity to improve a ford in a stony little creek, and in 2009 some of those same fellows may redo that in a different location on a larger scale, and figure out how to repair a road under fire. Breaking a sweat isn't for everyone, obviously, and events where the participants cut down trees and/or dig works tend to be satisfying. I realize most of ours were in the late 1990s, but people could have done so in May 2008. Heck, the Pamplin Park CS engineering LH a few years ago was a heck of a thing, and we learned about a variety of cool stuff, including CW era wire entanglements and Bully Beef.

Maybe it is my lack of experience but I would like to participate in an event
1. where the battle does not end....(ex: Marye's Heights in Fredericksburg where the federals had to pile up the dead bodies at night to sleep because raising up drew fire)

See you in November.

2. A completely unscripted event where sides were camped miles apart and they meet on a battle field and through the report of cav create battle plans and assault the next day (of course this could probably not happen do to safety)

Call Rob Murray or Jim Moffet and ask them about a certain tactical on muchos square miles on the KY/TN border where the opposing forces searched for each other, or ask Doug Oakes about DM XII, XIII, XI, and, well, not so much X or XI.

3. Petersburg....trenches, creater, the works!

I hope you meant "crater." :p

Frankly, spending time in the Blandford Church with those Tiffany windows gives a moment of pause for the Creator, if anything. That being said, Emmanuel Dabney can probably fill you in on the various NPS LH programs for Petersburg. With the right kind of ground hugging fog, and a certain stillness, sunrise in some of those forts and trenches can give a different sort of pause.

This just came to my mind also...what about doing a court martial for some soldiers accused of desertion or some other crime?

While not exclusively military, the Kentucky Trial event is a good example. Hank, Rob, or Linda could fill you in on the details. Other events have featured crime and punishment, and it is a rare man (thank you, Sparky) who will allow for shaving half his head and being marched from camp. Even standing on a barrel, riding a rail, carrying a log, signs, or the punishment horse isn't seen as often as it could be, and perhaps this is due to the "bad reenacting theatre" from renditions long ago.

The 10th Texas execution notes are worth reading. Check out Scott's website.

On a much higher note, the Jackson vs Hill or any of his other squabbles with subordinates would make for good "courtroom" drama. Some of the charges, testimony, and accounts still exist, although some are lost. Heck, look at what Stone went through after Ball's Bluff, or poor Warren after Sheridan stabbed him in the back, etc. Plenty to choose from.

More "Campaigner Events", where you are actually on the move, self-sufficient, and go more than a friday night, saturday and sunday morning. No 35 mile forced-marches like the 19th Iowa.... but "interaction" with your foe over 4-7 miles per day.

The rarity of campaign events tends to be compounded when great events are on the calendar for what seems like eons, and then some other effort is dumped right on top of them. Deconfliction is the proverbial plumbus balloon, but what a shame it is to have competing efforts purposefully right on top of each other, and this happens more often than not. This hasn't gone way, and reared itself in 2008 a couple of times. I'll leave it at that, but, yeah, "we need more BGR's, Marmaduke's and Piney Woods, style events."

We always talked about tearing up a section of railroad, destroying the parallel telegraph line and then bending the rails into Sherman's Hairpins. In the actual execution, it was unrealistic to actually tear up a real roadbed with ties and ballast. But at one event, we managed to secure a number of light gage rails, heat them up and bend them around a nearby tree. Check another experience off the to-do list.

Repost the photographs sometime. They are always a hit. With the price of scrap iron and steel having skyrocketed in the past few years, the availability of marine rail and other lightweight rail even in poor condition may make this out of the price range at the moment, but somewhere you can bet another few truckloads of rail for the asking are out there, and finding an abandoned railroad bed isn't that difficult. This is on my bucket list, and a construction event followed later on by a destruction event may make sense, even if we had to go with strap or strap tee instead of rail for some segments. Heck, how many fellows use an adz on a regular basis?

I would like to see us go to Ship Island off the Mississippi coast and spend an entire weekend manning a fort. I know there have been other such events, however this one we must take a boat ride to the island and stay there.

When Keith was bouncing his Reoccupation of Fort Sumter event concept off a number of people, several claimed "it couldn't be done." Simply put, the attacks on that event were brutal (although the only sea monster was Turdzilla), yet Keith persevered, and gave us a "Hall of Fame" event, if there ever was one. Robby's annual boat trip to occupy and shoot pigs on a certain island also comes to mind. One of my favorite living history farm porcines was an Ossabaw. Connect the dots.

Endless travel by various modes, fatigue details, building a corduroy road, guarding seemingly unimportant points, moving supplies, passing time as a prisoner or recovering as an invalid. No vain glorying; these are the types of things that for me adds to the realism of what we do.

At least six of those seven will happen at least once, and sometimes thrice or more between now and Christmas. Just thought it worth a mention that these offerings are out there, and slip through fingers every weekend.

To answer Brian Hicks' question...what I'd like to see is for some of the young folks to have the opportunity to experience some of what we have enjoyed over the years, and then have them take advantage of those opportunities, such as the spelt harvesting this past weekend with 19th (late) century equipment and draft horses.

Just my three centavos,

[orngblsm]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

There have been many great suggestions so far on this post. I would like to see events where event organizers portrayed local civilians rather than soldiers when guiding the forces towards their objectives. In my opinion, looking on as company commanders took directions from privates was the only shortcoming of the glendale event this past year.

Respectfully,

[Zouave Rooster]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

Gents,

Many great references and recollections.

Being in Ohio, having confederate prisons at Camp Chase and Johnson's Island, brought to mind a POW/Guard experience. Maybe a scenario of Morgan's escape from Camp Chase. The event could be recipricated in a union prison in the south, the guards becoming the guarded. Numerous activities and unique impressions, both military and civilian could be generated in such an event.

Kind Regards,

Erick Gustin
51st OVI Co. B
Cleveland Zouave Light Guard

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

One of the things that makes events like BGR and Piney Woods so attractive to me is the length of time involved. Saturday morning to Sunday noon doesn't really give one much of a feel for things.

Great suggestions... I feel, though, that there is a proclivity for event staff to over-saturate our time as privates with constant activities. Trying to "cram-in" 4+ years of experience into even 1 week or a 3-day weekend can be a daunting task for event organizers as well as the recipients of said events/duties, etc.

Over long-period garrison-style events, there should be just 1 day of "down-time" for participants to get a feel for the realities of garrison/camp life- boredom followed by the "mad-minutes" followed by more boredom and more madness again.

"Ebb and flow..." Just a suggestion...

To posit for a moment on Marse Heath's commentary above- perhaps we are getting so many people re-suggesting the same thing over again because quality events are regionalized- mostly toward the South since the war happened there.

I know of no quality events in New England (aka- the "Black Hole of Authentic Reenacting"- I know of some mainstreamer events up here, though...) and not everyone can afford to fly-in for events down South/Central-West all of the time. I sure hoped that Tom Craig's "Lonely Patrol" would go over this September to poke a hole in this theory, but the land got sold to do the event on. Ouch. I'd love to help-out organizing events if I lived again down South, but I know of no one here in New England that has land big enough to do events on and I don't know how many in the region espouse authenticism enough to do a successful event.

Also, for those that haven't experienced a quality event- try your best to get out and do so. :p:D


-Johnny Lloyd

aka- "J-honey Lloyd" :p

[AZReenactor]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

With travel expenses going up and the dollar declining I'm definitely looking for events that give me high quality experiences. BGR and W64 were two recent events I crossed the continent for and wasn't disappointed with. One big plus for me was that they were not mere to-three day events which made justifying the travel expense and time much easier. Since I know I will only get to travel East for an event or two a year it is preferable to spend a few extra vacation days for a high quality event that runs a few extra days or more.

I am looking for events that give me the most high quality authentic experiences to take home. Longer events tend to provide more opportunities for such experiences with out requiring additional trips across the continent. In the end, scenarios are not as important to me as the people and attitudes involved.

That being said some things I wouldn't mind being apart of include:
A camp of induction that replicates the experiences of green recruits being taken in and trained.
An army column on the march for several days on end.
Guarding a crossroads or other strategic point in the rear for several days where absolutely nothing out of the ordinary happens except rotations of duty and down time punctuated by drill, inspections, and other tedium of soldier life.
An army moving from campaign into winter quarters complete with constructing the quarters.
I also enjoy hard fighting scenarios but for me at least, it isn't sham battles that give me the truest glimpses the soldiers existence in the 1860s but rather the simple uneventful day to day drudgery.

[AZReenactor]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

One other thing, that we have been experimenting with on a small scale here in AZ is scenarios where the military leadership doesn't have a script to follow but must respond to unforeseen circumstances to the best of their ability with the resources at hand. (ie a Civil War Leadership Reaction Course of sorts). Situations where leadership ability and training come to the fore or colapse utterly.

On our events out here in the far West there may or may not be an op force at most any patrol march etc., and they may or may not be encountered at any hour day or night. Quality of guard duty, general alertness, attention to defensive positions, wariness of dangerous terrain, etc are all heightened when one doesn't know what they are encountering. While you don't have necessarily have the same Apaches, Navajo, Yavapai, Secessionists, outlaws, or deserters as we do, there are numerous situations where an army or smaller detachment could, or could not, encounter hostile forces during a patrol or road march in the East as well. Bushwacking, cavalry raids, sudden assaults, etc are always best when it is unexpected.

To go along with this, I'd like to see more formalized training of leaders in the minutia of their duties. I'd like to see more officers drilling and training NCOs, reciting tactics, training in camp hygene, etc. at events.

[Charles Heath]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

There I would like to see events where event organizers portrayed local civilians rather than soldiers when guiding the forces towards their objectives. In my opinion, looking on as company commanders took directions from privates was the only shortcoming of the glendale event this past year

Ryan,

If you'd read your pre-event information, then you'd have known why one guide at Glendale-Malvern Hill was in military uniform, and the other was not. It was in there, and you may or may not have noticed what the third guide was wearing, which was the intent. That's okay, because after Payne's Farm, a couple of fellows only then realized there had been a battle on that very site, almost down to square foot precision.

Remember the landowner in borrowed civilian clothes at the Sailor's Creek 200o march? Plenty of examples of guides at events in civilian clothing, and plenty of example of period guides in military clothing, too. How about the guide for the recent 1st Minn. campaigner adjunct to the AHT event? That feller had a nifty Bawlmer Orioles hat clashing a bit with the Winter 1864 2008 tee shirt (which featured images of the guides from GMH08 plus some Kabuki feller) in a 21st century ensemble. Okay, I think the work boots were bought in 1999, but they've been resoled. ;)

That being said, you've no doubt seen the multitude of civlian mounted and guides afoot over the years at the various Death Marches in New York. One may even be in a wagon at some point....

[CompanyWag]

Speaking of civilians, great strides have been made over the past few years in developing civilian refugee impressions and their interaction with troops. But there is one civilian aspect that consistently is missing from most LH scenarios...the presence in quantity of people of color, blacks, African-Americans or what have you. I may be opening a whole `nuther can of worms here, but most events do tend to be waspish affairs insulated in our military settings.

Historically, Confederate interaction on any large scale may be limited to laborers or camp servants. But as a western federal I'd like to see an event where a military camp or patrol is flooded with escaped/liberated contraband illustrating the problems and interactions that such would provide. Many midwestern troops had never seen a negro before, and such encounters definitely made an impression.

On the Smith/Brewster March through Oconee, Georgia back in the late 90's, had the foraging party unexpectedly encountered a group of 20 or 30 runaways, that would have added a whole new twist for the patrol's officer to deal with. Feed them? Send them back whence they came? Let them shadow the patrol for the rest of the 26 mile march back to the column of the XVII AC? Decisions, decisions.

I know of a few serious-minded blacks experienced with living history that could pull this off. I imagine that there may be more out there that I'm not even aware of. If Williamsburg has evolved so far as to being able to stage a slave auction, I imagine this one is not in the realm of "gee, what if?"

Paul McKee

[kazrosiecki]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

Some of the answer to the question is "We haven't done this in a while. Should we do this again?"

My uncle has told me about an event he attended back around 2002 (?) in Georgia. I want to say it was called Outpost but I am not sure. I think he said it was held on Lee White's property. I do not think the unit that organized this event is around anymore.

Now, from the way he talks about this event really makes me jealous that I was not reenacting yet. I think he said that the event host's actually looked over his kit, he had to sit around in a rifle pit and keep watch for anything suspicious, and that not cutting the cape off of a overcoat is a plus:). There was also a blanket issue at the event, where the blankets were brought in all rolled up and then cut to size. For some reason, hearing about this event really intrigues me. I don't think there has been an event like this one since, close, but not the same. This event should not be confused with the more recent Outpost's which I believe were more tacticals. I'm not totally sure but I do not think there was really any fighting at this event either.

Anyway, for those guys who know the event I am talking about, I think it is time for another one.

Just my thoughts,

[Charles Heath]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

On the Smith/Brewster March through Oconee, Georgia back in the late 90's, had the foraging party....

The Bummer March of 1994

With the exception of live rounds, this type of event happens on a regular basis.

[CompanyWag]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

The Bummer March of 1994

With the exception of live rounds, this type of event happens on a regular basis.

That was back in 1994? Man how time flies! I had the honor of being the captain in charge of that foraging party. One of the most realistic events I've ever had the honor of participating in. I believe Smith and Brewster set a high standard for other events that followed.

Paul McKee

[weed]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

Having the honor of serving as 1st Sgt. under Paul on the Smith-Brewster March, we have done just about everything From that march, to building (and using) real winter quarters, to bending railroad rails arround trees, to Presidential Parades to actually reenacting "The Grand Review" down Pennsivania Ave. to being THE FIRST UNIT let on to ALMOST EVERY ORIGINAL BATTLEFIELD since the centenial.....THERE IS NOTHING THE MUDSILLS DID NOT DO. (By the way, that includes putting 4 60 man companies on the field at the 125th Gettysburg, stay the week doing Civil War for a week in Mark Uptons farm, near Chambersburg, then going back to Gettysburg to be the 1st Reeactors let on the battlefiled since July 1963 and then sleeping in the "Slaughter Pen" the nite of July 2, 125 years to the nite. (that was spooky)

Also doing living history at West Point Military Acadamy and doing Civil War dirill mon the plain at West Point.

Weed:)

[coastaltrash]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

For anyone interested- Since Brian made mention, there are already plans being worked out for my company only at Shiloh 2009 to march from Corinth to the park. More info later as it becomes solid,

[burt60]

Re: What would you like to experiance at future events?

What about Westville in Oct. A actual 1850's town aready built, drumming in new troops and many civilan roles.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18552

Or one were we get invaded by Pirates Arrrrrg