Bring back your friends.

[SCTiger]

Once in awhile a church pastor will issue out a call for the congregation to contact the "inactives". It seems that we have lost a lot of people on this side of the hobby during the last five years. Is there anything we can do to get people back and excited? I know a great deal got burned out during the "us versus them" wars, so I don't want to rehash that.

Give specific examples of why they left the hobby, no grandiose theories or speculation, just facts.

I would also like to issue a challenge for everyone to call at least one former member and invite them back or just give them a friendly call and see how they are doing.

I have a lot of friends in this hobby and even if they quit reenacting I still like to stay in touch. The best recruits we could get are the inactives, who just need that ego boost and a reinvitation.

[James A. Page]

Re: Bring back your friends.

A Civil War Homecoming! I love this idea. Each of us should try to bring one man back to the hobby!

Jim Page

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Hallo!

Build it and they will come.

I"m off to the Old Folks' Home right now! ;) :) :)

Curt

[red]

Re: Bring back your friends.

I can think of 4 main reasons people I know have left the hobby,

1. Ga$$$$$$$

2. cost of powder, caps, etc.

3. stupid-high cost of "authentic" uniforms and gear, when given the choice of pay tuition or buy a frock coat, tuition reigns supreme.

4. the horrible repitition of CW events, and the "us vs. them" fights. alot of guys I know are selling CW stuff and buying kits for more interesting time periods, 1812, WW2, WW1, etc. these other time periods also include alot less bashing back and forth, and it's quite refreshing.

these are simply my observations, other's mileage, etc. etc.

Ian Baker

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Hallo!

Herr Red!

I think you meant to post over on the "Why people leave the hobby" thread.
This one was about bringing them back.

;) :)

Just a-funnin'..

Seriously though....

"3. stupid-high cost of "authentic" uniforms and gear, when given the choice of pay tuition or buy a frock coat, tuition reigns supreme."

IMHO, while I appreciate the spirit of the thought and accuracy of the second half of the statement, "stupid-high cost of 'authentic' uniforms and gear-" this is kind of like Mel Gibson yelling "God save King George" in the rebel tavern in "The Patriot," and Flame Bait on the AC Forum.

Curt

[Johnny Lloyd]

I can think of 4 main reasons people I know have left the hobby,

1. Ga$$$$$$$

2. cost of powder, caps, etc.

3. stupid-high cost of "authentic" uniforms and gear, when given the choice of pay tuition or buy a frock coat, tuition reigns supreme.

4. the horrible repitition of CW events, and the "us vs. them" fights. alot of guys I know are selling CW stuff and buying kits for more interesting time periods, 1812, WW2, WW1, etc. these other time periods also include alot less bashing back and forth, and it's quite refreshing.

these are simply my observations, other's mileage, etc. etc.

Ian Baker

Okay... ya' got me on thisn' Greg...

THE SCENE: (as Ashokan Farewell plays in the background of this sob story- a montage of pictures of past reenactments, gas pumps, fast food grabbing before events, freezing rain at River's Bridge '99, Ft. Sumter 2002, drunken dancing/singing at W64, and impromptu J-Honey Lloyd songs 'At High Tide' come into mind... a tear comes to Johnny's right eye:cry_smile)

Ian and all:

#1) Yeah, gas prices are affecting participation- also flights got more expensive this year due to fuel as well. I won't argue you that this has made me think twice about which events to do this year. I don't even entertain the idea anymore of attending non-quality oriented events mostly due to this fact- I don't want to feel as though I burned valuable gas getting to a crappy farbonzo-fest that pale in-comparison to what I have recently experienced at quality events, even if there is a campaigner element in attendance.

#2) Not just money... Black powder and caps are getting majorly hard to find too, along with all these durn Federal, State, town, royal-decree regulations. Jeez. What happened to the days when most sporting-goods shops sold good-ol' fashioned black powder??? Here in New England (CT) it is getting hard to come-by... I don't think anyone sells it in the state. Perhaps Maine Powderhouse is the closest place to find it??? I've had to use Hogdon's [sic] stuff in a pinch once this year. Ick!

#3) Now, I have heard form my vendor friends on how hard it is for them to come-across stuff for quality uniforms... seems indigo-dyed cloth jes' ain't really used anymore .
Plus, quality vendors aren't the richest people either- :p;). Cost of their raw materials to make this stuff is included in the price of the item too.
You get what you pay for... quality costs, we've all found out--- but that is okay if it supports my friends and fellow hobbyists, I think.

To paraphrase Brother Brian Hicks: "This hobby can get quite damn expensive".

Astute and profound observation, sir.

#4) Other time periods, I feel, aren't gobbling-up willing participants' hard earned and quite little extra cash-ola as much as item #1 above. If the economy was still booming, we'd all have more money to do many different time periods.

I think we are over 80% of the intra-hobby bashing... the 'us versus them' so-to-speak. For me... I saw the beginnings of it in my home (SC) in the late 1990s, I went to Germany/fought a war, came back to the dwindling of it. Seems like I avoided the bigger fights too...:D

Face it: I think most people that strive for authenticity realize a 'streamer will be a 'streamer if he wants to be and as long as the little Paki children can make polyester uniforms while they wonder 'who on Earth would want to re-enact a war- there is plenty of conflict over here with India and over in Afghanistan'.

(Read the last part in an Apu from the Simpsons accent and you might just squirt milk out of your nose...)

Anyway... mileage... varying... my own weird beliefs... and other stuff...

My toungue is firmly planted in-cheek. ;)

All the best to ya'll - Johnny Lloyd

[Rob]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Hell, right now I am trying to talk myself into staying with it. And I'm losing the argument.

[Tom Craig]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Gents,

While the issues mentioned above (gas prices, cap and powder availablity etc) are certainly effecting current reenactor participation, I think Greg was talking about folks who used to reenact in years past and just aren't around anymore. There are a lot of folks who used to post here who you don't hear from these days.

I would argue for a few other factors that drive the disappearance of the "old guard" of campaigners:

1) Politics: I don't mean the "us vs them" thing. Almost all of the "founding fathers" of the c/h/p movment started out as "them" and many of them have/had friends on both sides of the fence.

What I mean by politics is inter and intra unit politics on "our" side of the hobby. Those of you who have been watching this show for a while can't count the number of units/messes/squads that have come and go since 2000. Many of those units were born out of ugly fueds within units that lead to splinters and more splinters. Our side of this hobby has been small enough, but thanks to politics (at least here in the east) that small hobby has been broken into smaller bits time and again by politics. So, a lot of people just got tired of the same old fights lead by the same old egos, and simply checked out.

2) Stagnation of the Hobby: This may cause some heartburn, and some of you may passionately disagree, but I actually argue that in MOST facets of our side of the hobby things have stagnated. About three or four years ago at a CR COI several of us had a discussion about the fact that progressive has become the new mainstream.

As the progressive has grown in number (a good thing), it has diluted in quality. It is easier than ever to buy good gear and access already done research. There are certainly some notable exceptions (Charles Heath with rations, John Cleaveland with events to name two), but overall I feel that our side of things have stagnated and that has lead many veterans to boredom, and frustration. When your hobby has gotten boring, it's time to leave.

3) Time in service/age: There is a lot of talk about how many in our hobby are aging, and that is certainly taking a toll on the numbers. More than that I think it is for many a matter of attrition. Back in the old 'streamer days it was pretty much a given that the average reenactor would last 3-5 years. Many of the veterans of the c/h/p movement outlived that benchmark, but for most guys 7-8 years are WAY too long to be in the hobby.

How do we fix it? I think Curt, as one of those veterans, has the right idea. Build something worthy of coming out of retirement and they will come. I know several of my veteran pards who were on the verge of quiting the hobby have joined me in the cavalry, and have found something new to be excited about in reenacting. I know for myself I try to change up the things I do every three years or so to keep it fresh for me. The answer for everyone is different, but I think pushing the envelope helps to bring some of our old friends back into the fold.

Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Terry Sorchy]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Come to Marmadukes and Piney Woods and be excited again!:baring_te:D:p
Cheers
Terry Sorchy

[JimConley]

Ok, I’ll play.

There are several reasons for the falling participation and the growing number of people making their exit.

Many people will not agree with me on these topics, some will.

Fuel Prices/The Economy
Most of the U.S. is in a tight spot financially. Be it the rising gas prices or more careful spending, the economic state we are in is causing people to be more selective in the events they attend and not allowing us to hit the number of events we would have, say, five years ago. Even a few years ago when I was a broke college kid, it was nothing for me to hit 6 or 8 events in a year, and having to drive several hours to each of them. Last year I went to 3, and I’ll be lucky to see number 3 and 4 before this year ends.

Fallen Standards
The internet is a good thing and it is also a terrible thing regarding the “authentic,” or whatever you like to call it, part of the hobby. It allowed for more simple communication, more networking between groups, and easier access for people wanting to hop the fence over this way. However, because of that easier access, more and more people have come to play which greatly dropped the bar as far as authenticity goes. Does anybody have a perfect kit? Are we all drill masters? Do we all read up on the campaigns before we hit an event? No, of course not. But somewhere along the line this side of the hobby went from exclusive or fierce or distinguished, pick your poison, to inclusive and moderate. And I understand that. Who wants to be the one to turn a guy with a good attitude away because his kit is not quite there or he has some bad habits from the other side to get rid of? But, I know plenty of people that would rather do their own thing rather than be a part of events that include expanding numbers of eyesores and shenanigans. Is that not how this whole “authentic” thing got started anyways, by breaking away from things that are clearly amiss? Now people are breaking away from those groups that initiated disassociating from the unsought and starting over.

The internet also brought along another beast, “approved vendors.” Who decides what vendor makes the cut and what vendor does not? I would like to think that it is up to the individual and that his/her choices are based upon research and/or experience. However, word of mouth travels quickly and easily via the internet and sadly many have been persuaded by misguided opinions as to what are the proper things to buy. Do you think that guy can tell you how his new “amazingly-awesome, sweet, cool, spot-on” coat is consistent or, more importantly, inconsistent with originals? I’ve talked with plenty of guys that have bought the same reproduction item from a handful of “authentic vendors” only to realize that there have been one or two vendors all along that reproduce something much closer to an original. That poor guy just spent a lot of hard-earned money on 2 or 3 coats before he realized where he should have gone in the first place.

Some Guys Are Just Burnt Out
Think about now as opposed to 10 or 12 years ago. There are so many “authentic” events to choose from now. It’s great that so many events out there are trying to uphold a standard and demand something of its participants. But, how many NPS Living Histories can you go to before you just feel like you’ve done it 100 times? And, that is not entirely limited to NPS LHs either. I can recall being at several events where I felt bored because I’d done the same damn things over and over already. And, when you’ve “been there, done that” so many times, it’s only natural to start losing interest. Too, going back to the fuel cost issue, guys are less likely to drive across a few states for an event that they’ve probably done a half-dozen times in the last ten years.

We Try To Do Too Much
I’m curious where it became a standard to fill every hour of an event with something ado? Yes, we want to get as much out of our short time at an event as we can, but why does it have to be excessive? Sure, I like going to an event where I marched all weekend and feel like tumbling over when it’s all said and done. But when did that become applicable to all event scenarios? I don’t know how the rest of you feel, but when I’ve been to an event that was just too much, there is not really a lot of the experience I walk away appreciating because I didn’t have time to absorb most of it. Driving all day long to arrive, put my kit on, fall in, do picket duty half the night, wake up after only a couple hours sleep, move all day long, then do more picket duty, get up, march back, say my goodbyes and go back home. That really just loses appeal after a while, and I leave thinking, “what the hell just happened?” No event can include everything, it’s just not possible. So why not focus on a few aspects of the scenario rather than trying to encompass a little bit of all of it in 36 hours?

Politics/Personal Stipulations
Pat Landrum put it well in another thread when he said, “The underlying political stink and cheap shots in this side of the hobby is getting about as bad as it is in the mainstream, if not worse.” Both ends of the hobby have competitive groups and individuals. On this end, where we strive for better experiences, that competitive spirit has become almost as harmful as a group of intensive ‘streamers that exalt in winning a battle re-enactment as if the war happened yesterday, and with little validation. It’s a fact that certain groups are better than others because they uphold standards and expectations more strictly than others, and that will obviously depend upon perspective and overall objective or intent. But, guess what? Even some of the best groups are still lacking too, in more than one area.

Too Many “Re-enactors”/“Re-enactorisms”
This goes back to the issues and shortcomings with fallen standards and broadening admittances. Even in the short time that I have been around, there has been an influx of greenhorns into the higher-caliber events. Great! The more the better. But what happened to the old standards? Why are we accommodating to blemishes when there used to be a higher par level that was adhered to?

Not only does this apply to kits, but behavior as well. I’m out there to have a good experience and have a good time same as everyone else. But, the grab-assing really, really gets old, especially in instances where there is supposed to be a more military decorum. It happens at every event whereupon I try to take in the landscape or what’s happening around me only to have it desolated by callow exchanges of fart jokes and idiocy. And, let’s not forget the horrid attempts at first person and mannerisms that are far too remindful of Gone With The Wind and Gettysburg.

The point with fallen standards is that too much of what was left is finding its way into what was intended.

I truly believe that the problem stems from the simple fact that there is no longer a clear definition of what we're doing. It used to be one or the other, "re-enactor" or "hardcore," and now we have all these varying levels and interpretations of what makes this type of "authentic" better than that type of "authentic."

Bleh :sick:

[Hank Trent]

Re: Bring back your friends.

I don't know how I'd ever bring back most of the people I know who've left. A few have actually quit reenacting, but more have stopped progressing or regressed, so as the p/h end of the hobby has moved forward, they haven't and don't want to. So the very things that make p/h events special, are what they specifically don't want anymore, or never did.

They perceive too much pressure to know historic information about the scenario. Too much pressure to actually reenact rather than do a mix of modern and period things. Too much physical discomfort (bugs, heat, cold, wet, distance, etc.). Too much insistence on trying to keep everything at an equal level rather than letting them concentrate on their particular area of interest and allowing them lower standards on other things.

In other words, the intrinsic goal of trying to relive history accurately for a sustained time isn't a great enough emotional reward, to compensate for the effort and annoyance of everything else that makes it possible.

I don't know how you get around that, without lowering standards and saying "Come on anyway, you can do whatever you want." They can find that at mainstream or authenticist events, which is what they attend when they do reenact. More challenging excitement, or higher standards, or "better" events wouldn't entice them, because that's just the opposite of what they're looking for.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Hank, made some very good points here. On the military side of the house, I have found that progression and leadership takes on many different meanings. Having to balance the fustration of this, I have decided to get back to the reasons why I got into this hobby

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Bring back your friends.

I think folks have missed the point of the thread:
Getting folks back into the hobby who've been out of it for a while... Not why folks leave in the first place.

There's a guy in my home town who was very active in the 70's and 80's, but left after the 125th's when his son got active in sports. (He doesn't live too far from you, Boozie!) Would he be interested in getting involved again? Who knows!

I think Greg's point is that we should get in touch with these folks to see if all they need is a "nudge".

[lukegilly13]

Re: Bring back your friends.

I have decided to get back to the reasons why I got into this hobby

VERY well spoken. I think the key to getting them back into the hobby is simply getting them back into the hobby. Not the politics, not the SCV debates, not the progressive versus the mainstream....but THE HOBBY! Our hobby is representing Americans....good ol baseball and apple pie americans whether you're a yank or a reb. The good book tells you that if you are going to do something to do it whole heartedly. Ask yourself this: When you get your kit out to use it and that unmistakeable whiff catches you just right...do you think "Shewwww...what the hell is that" or do you drift into a brief day dream that goes beyond gas prices, politics, and arguments and back to that 1860's escape you used to consider a vacation? My opinion, to get them back, you've got to show them that the "take me out to the ballgame" passion for the hobby still exists. It's contagous...and showing it in yourself may wake it up in them. Consider your own involvement and connections to the hobby. Which one effected you more in the last year?

1. Brett Farve being traded to the Jets? Or Chris Daley becoming "another vendor"
2. General Motors considering bankruptcy? Or Windell Decker considering getting out of the business because of lack of sells?
3. The Olympics in Beijing? Or the 145th Anniversary of Gettysburg?

To get folks back into the hobby....you have to do exactly that. I remember when I got my first baseball glove....I slept in it at night for the longest time! Heck when my boys come in new in the spring with new gloves and new shoes...I have to admit,with just the smell i'm 10 again! Maybe more of us should be trying to convince our wives that it is "normal" to wear a kepi and cartridge box to bed. Bring them back into the hobby...not back into the reasons they quit! The way to do that, in my opinion, is bring the driving spirit behind the hobby back into ourselves first.
Okay...i'm down off my squarehead nailed, rough sawed, hand-painted hardcracker box now.

[Anna Allen]

Re: Bring back your friends.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way, but why try so hard to get people back in the hobby? It's not like it's the end of the world if all of a sudden the reenactment of the Civil War dies. (Doubt that will happen, but you know, it's not the worst thing if it did.) Yeah, we all love it. Not only do you get a chance to be with people who are passionate about history like you are, but you get to forget about your real life, your job or anything else that is distracting, like the internet. :p And then most of the time, people who have left the hobby did it for a good reason. I have a friend who rarely goes to events anymore because he's just plain burned out. Mostly from the BS you have to deal with in this "hobby." I always stress "hobby" because I see people who talk about it like it's the only thing worth living for. And frankly, that makes me want to gag. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore going to events, seeing my friends and obsessing over hand sewn buttonholes just like any other living historian. But it wouldn't kill me if suddenly one day, we discovered Civil War reenacting has reached an ending point. (Heaven forbid!!!)

So back to the original topic, you can go call up your "lost" friends and get them back in the hobby, but I personally think it's a waste of time. It's one thing if they show interest and you want to help them along so they can go to better events, but it's entirely a different thing to call up those who really could care less and who have found other interests. Okay, well I feel like I'm just repeating myself now so I'll shut up. :)