Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

[Terry Sorchy]

Gents,
What I said in my original post did not come out on the forum the way I ment it. I was trying to find a way we could all do a better job in sheduling and wanted to know if there was anything I could do to improve Marmy's. Thats all. I apologize to all I may have offended unintentionally.
Terry Sorchy

[Shotgun Messiah]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Face it Terry, its West of the Mississippi, It was the "Bastard Child" during the War and still is...
Starting to get nervous now the rebel numbers are growing....

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I feel that Terry is dead-on with his concerns and his comments.

At BGR we had radically more men who came from California and the west coast (35+ hours each way) and the UK and Europe than we did from states east of the Mississippi. It's sad. By now those of us on this side of the river are used to the pathetic yellow-bellied poser pukes who talk big on these forums and wear flashy kits but who fail to recall the WHY of owning all the gear. We've been east to your events many times. We've heard the promises that if you support our events we'll support yours and we've then felt the knife in the back as those flaky promises and pledges are ignored. Lack of personal honor plays a big part in that.

The thought process behind an event like Marmaduke's Raid is to recreate a very unique and heretofore under-studied portion of the war between the states. Folks will see and do things they have not had the opportunity to do before. The amount of time and energy which has gone into planning and preparation is staggering. None of the folks who have given so freely of their time are paid- they hold day jobs, have spouses and families just like us.

And how have you, the average Joe participant, risen to this opportunity? Well, you haven't registered. Better yet, two rival events came in and set up to further drain manpower. Those two organizers ought to bear some bit of shame for bone-headedness. In a day and age when the hobby is already small and gas prices, the war, the economy, burnout, etc are playing heck on numbers two other free-lancing types decided that events close by Marmaduke's were a grand idea.

Small, large, or moderate in size, Marmaduke's Raid will be a damned stout event. It's run by outstanding fellows and its cause is true. Those that come are campaigners, those that don't are what they are. If a fellow was worried about showing up and being judged by his "kit," he need not worry. Gear can be loaned, attitude can't.

So, if you are on the fence about coming to Marmaduke'd don't sweat it- we were all new once and you'll be welcomed with open arms. The remainder of the posers and weaklings, the uber-keyboard hardkewls who melt away when it rains and don't come to events where they are pushed and challenged- we know who you are anyway, no sense in you types coming.

Regards,

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

"...The remainder of the posers and weaklings, the uber-keyboard hardkewls who melt away when it rains and don't come to events where they are pushed and challenged- we know who you are anyway, no sense in you types coming..."

Jeepers, Fred, don't beat around the bush, tell us how you feel!

I'm back deep in debt with this ongoing plumbing project at the Hardscrabble Manse but darnnit I'm going to try everything possible to still get to Marmy's. It's only 10 hours for me from Nebraska, so it's just a little "day trip" compared to what some of the folks will drive. Besides, I'll get to hook up again with lads I met at AHT and will have a chance to shoot at Fahtz -- worth the price of admission in itself. ;^)

Will consult with she-who-outranks-me. If all goes according to plan, will have my LATE registration for federal in next week. Otherwise, my $ will go for preservation.

Let's get together on this one, fellers -- if you're planning to attend Into the Woods or Bummer's next year, this will be a good tune up!

Ever forward,
Paul Hadley
Missing the stove boat days.

[MO-Pard]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Face it Terry, its West of the Mississippi, It was the "Bastard Child" during the War and still is...

The Confederacy made that mistake once, and it cost them the war.

To stand beside what Frank and Terry had to say, I offer only this: If they aren't coming, we don't want them. Let the post-padders, keyboard kings, and 'my uniform might get dirty' types stay home and talk a good game. I look at the list and see the Real Deals and hardcores are already coming. It is the same guys you see at the campaign events like this and BGR.

This is not an event we or anyone should have to coax anyone to experience. That comes from within each person. True historians will want to see it, smell it, walk it and understand what happened in this area. True Preservationists will be in the car without further thought to make a difference. True Campaigners will want to soak in it, subsist in it and bond in it. This event is only for those who truely, excuses be damned, hunger for the soldier's experience. It doesn't matter how far. It doesn't matter what obstacles. It doesn't matter where. It is for the serious. It is circled on the calendar, the purpose set and you do what it takes to be there. Period.

I commend, welcome and yearn for the time to experience what lies ahead with all those who make this a priority.

I have tended to bite my tongue and sit in the shadows, but don't ask me to just yet, for I cannot.

This event will go on, regardless of how many more men of honor show up. Both commanders hoped for larger numbers, but will accept quality over quantity. The lay of the land will make if difficult for standard two-rank manuevers, so there probably never would have been any right wheels up hill through the woods. But what is really disappointing, almost embarrassing, is how this 'enlightened tier' of the hobby is treating Frank and Terry.

Frank has done a great dea for the hobby and served as leaders in many of your events. He has put on other events. He attends your events and rallies many groups he has connections. Frank has almost single-handedly researched, lobbied and put this event together the last year and a half. And he may be upset at me for saying so, but he did a great deal of this during the recent birth and complications of his premature son. How many would do that to put on an event for you?

Terry, has also worked a lot on helping put on this event. He attends many of your events. In the last two years he has held leadership positions and even overall Federal leadership at many events. And he brings his Federal affiliates with him. He feeds people out of his own pocket with one of his impressions. Are we taking advantage of these guys?

This event was first announced a year-and-a half ago, just after BGR. It was well lauded and the enthusiasm great. Everyone was coming. Now the event is a month and a half away and all the talk was hollow. No one could wait for another Trans Miss campaign event like BGR......even the Monday morning quarterbacks who "couldn't make that one." This event is on the grounds of a real standing earthen Federal fort. 150 years old and only a small number of people have seen it. The surrounding territory was used and inhabited by Southern forces. The Federals will be living camp life within an actual Federal fort out in the middle of nowhere, not in some military park next to Pizza Hut. This is the real thing. It is also about preservation and that is why the event is being held. Sure there is a raffle but your participation/registration check go a lot farther.

This event was announced before Stones River and I have no problem with Stones River and the drill competition, with the exception of offering it so close to Marmadukes. I think the drill competition is an interesting idea, but not at the expense of a campaigner preservation event. If you attend both I think that is great. But not doing Marmadukes preservation effort and skipping not only preservation, but bagging on Terry and Frank, is not honorable. With that said I do applaud Herb and brothers Runyon and Hicks for coming to the event and helping out. I do hope more of my brothers jump in a car and assist. This whole situation has put me and many in a rough and unpleasent postion. For years now I have attempted to repair the fractures and hard-feelings out there between different groups supporting each others events. I like the WIG and have so many friends and brothers there. But the WIG is made of many small groups and the problem is a lot of the small groups don't feel a need, or honor to support the events of others who support WIG events. I do wish Frank had listed the state and units of those who are registered or get registered, and then compare it to the rosters from the previous events. But all-in-all, I now feel foolish for trying to mend these fractures and encouraging all to forgive, move forward and begin supporting. Some had enough a while ago and I know will now say, "We told you so." But as such, if there isn't dramatic improvement, I can't say who will feel right in making the drive and supporting the upcoming events and have no doubt many will feel this way. I know Herb is coming, and maybe Kiev, but how many from the Armory Guards and Mess #1 will attend Marmadukes? Who is coming from Pickett's Mill when we drove 16 hours and arrived a day early to work with the park? These are the state of affairs. Where is the ownership, responsibility and honor?


This post is to stand byTerry and Frank, and this preservation effort. I dont' expect it to change anyone's mind and to be honest my faith in the support of the 'community' here has received a rude awakening. If you don't come, that is your business, but how many mainstream or non-worthwhile events have you attended this year and how does it compare to what is at stake here. Is a few bucks in gas and a roadtrip with your friends such a high price and hardship for you?This event has been on the table for a year-and-a-half now so there are no excuses. (So please save for yourself.) C.S. Lewis describes Human Nature as the internal understanding within all of us between what is the right and wrong things to do. We choose the wrong things when we are motivated by selfishness, but then try to write ourselves an exemption by looking for and attaching excuses. Unless you are in labor, deployed, hospitalized or dead, there are no reasons why arrangements weren't/can't be made to help out with a good attitude. If they were Super Bowl tickets we'd rearrange just about anything. Unless this event is beyond your physical ability and anyone would respect that. I think Paul (Calloway) had a great idea about getting everyone together for an event and it's too bad this couldn't have been the one to do some good. Afterall, the event is just across the river from Kentucky.

We will see what happens in the next few weeks. It won't affect the event, but the strong statements will be shown through actions and inactions, not words.

We all need to look in the mirror and see if we are doing the right thing.


"Hardcores take the situations and difficulties they are dealt, and see to overcome them.
Hardkewls make excuses for uncomfortable situations, and seek to manage image."

[coastaltrash]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I'll speak up as one of the "bone headed" organizers of one of the competing events, and since I talked with Terry last night about the same topic I'll share my thoughts with the open forum.

The NPS set our weekend, so it was either go, that weekend or not at all. The event was VOTED on by members, and Marmaduke's Raid was one on the box, and it was not picked by the membership at the meeting. Stones River is suffering same as Marmaduke's Raid, and same as a few others, so I guess I should call the guys in my group that are attending Westville or Perryville instead a bunch of webfoot light weight nancy boys and see how that works.

Sad truth to my situation is- I was planning on going to Marmaduke's Raid when I first heard about it, and then I got engaged....to a fiance who lives in Middle Tennessee. No big deal, I can still go....wait, wait, you mean there is more to that than putting the ring on your finger? What the hell is premarital counciling? Goodbye vacation time spent on events, hello trips to Tennessee for real life stuff. And while I enjoy those nights freezing, half drunk around a camp fire at Mansfield with my Trans Miss friends in the Ground Hornets, you guys are just going to have to be happy with Shannon Tilley, Jamie Barr and Casey Cleavland. Wish I could be there.

[Terry Sorchy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gents,
I did not mean to post any blame on anyone as no one is to blame. I am not saying anyone is let down, all I am saying is that we all have to work together in this tiny hobby. We are all made of the same cloth and have the same basic goals in mind. God has granted us a gift. The gift of taking something of a bygone era and making it understanable to others.
Let us be together in our goals, for events research and planning. Consideration and respect are the watchwords.
I ment for my post before to be a stimulus for those on the fence. I ment nothing against anyone in Kentucky, Indiana, or Ohio. The reason I even said those states is we are portraying Western Feds and we have men coming from Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, Michigan. The other Western states just came to mind.
I want to work communally with all in this hobby so lets all be constuctive and brotherly in our endevours.
Thank You
Terry Sorchy

[BrianHicks]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

A little bit of History is in order here.

The WIG, in conjunction with the GHTI announced on 30 August, 2007, the Camp Morton Event (scheduled for the same dates as the later announced. WIGs Stones River event- 10-12 Oct). We had a vision of going North and attempting to do something new, in an area that has not bee overly plentiful with C/P/H events.

On 21 September, 2007, we learned that the event site turned us off. The Wig at that time looked for another event in the same part of the year, and through contacts with the Stones River National Battlefield, began working towards an event there. The Park Service finally gave us the dates of 10-12 October, 2008. The WIG discussed this event and dates, as well as the already announce Marmadukes Raid (which was announced on 29 September) at our December 3d meeting. It was voted upon, and the WIG chose Stones River as the Bn event for the later half of 2008. The dates of the event were announced here on the A/C on 7 Jan 2008.

There are a number of other events competing for attendance during this period as well:

Fort Duffield (5-7 Sept) announced on 3 Sept 2007
Chicamauga LH (19-21 Sept) announced on 16 October 2007.
Westville LH (17-19 Oct) announced on 24 August 2007.

So... you see here... that the WIGs Stones River event should not be pointed to and nay sayed for it's dates being close to Marmadukes Raid. Nor should statements like this:

Better yet, two rival events came in and set up to further drain manpower. Those two organizers ought to bear some bit of shame for bone-headedness.

...be thrown around, as they do no one any good, and only serve provoke feelings best not encouraged amongst such a small group as we are.

And to close out my comments, let me share a bit of facts that I'm sure most all of you are unaware of.

While there is a great concern that other events, and I'll use the WIGs Stones River event to make my point (because if this event, I know the facts)

As of today, the Fort Duffield event has just a few men shy of three times the amount of participants registered, as does the WIG for Stones River.

The Westville LH event has five times the number of participants registered, versus the WIGs Stones River Event.

The Chicamauga LH event appears to have at least three times the number of participants when compared to the WIGs Stones River event.

And now for Marmadukes Raid. It. Like Westville, appears to have the greatest number of participants registered, which as of today, outnumbers those registered for Stones River by a 5 to 1 ratio.

So.... does it appear that the Stones River event has detracted from participants registering for Marmadukes (or any other events in this time period)? From what I see.... I have to reply with a resounding NO!

To the contrary... if anything... registration for Stones River... well... to be blunt.. sucks as of this date. And, more than any other event during this part of the year, is suffering worse than any another event when it comes to men choosing not to support this event in favor of other events.

And allow me to point one other discreet fact. From what I have seen, the organizers of the WIG event have refrained from publicly commenting on how they are concerned about other events drawing men away from Stones River. Why? Because to do so is (in my opinion) counter productive.

Me? Yes.. I cross the big scary river to support our fellows in the west. I attended BGR, went across the river on the 10 hour drive (through a fast and nasty blizzard) to attend Pea Ridge. And yes... I will be at Marmadukes and into the Piney Woods next year as well.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Insert a big sigh here.

[Terry Sorchy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I believe I have made a mistake in posting this thread. It was not ment to upset anyone or to undermine all the fine work that goes into these events.
I have opened a cybor pandoras box unintentionally.
Mods would you PLEASE DELETE this Post.
Terry Sorchy

[Bushrod Carter]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Ok, here are my two cents...

Thank you Brian for stating what should be obvious.

Although numbers for events around these parts are suffering more than most - those involved don't feel the need to start threads on the AC to whine, point the finger, and/or accuse others of not supporting "their" event.

Hey guys, basic truth here is... "Men will go to the events they WANT to go to." If the event is what they want to attend/experience they will go.

I've been west of the big scary river - the events were something that I wanted to experience.

I've been to northern New York State. The event was something I wanted to experience.

There are many other events that can be filled in here as "long distance" events - even one in Bath, England.

If someone wants to make the WIG the "bad guy" there is nothing to stop them. How many events have happened that asked the WIG to attend as an organization? Was the WIG asked to attend Marmy's Raid as a unit? NO. Was the WIG asked to attend BGR as a unit? NO.

So, is the problem with the unit or the individuals that have decided the event isn't something they want to experience?

At any rate, if it is with individuals I encourage those with problems to step up and be heard. There are some pretty broad shoulders to push on around here.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Terry,

You've done the hobby a Helluva favor, and I certainly hope this thread isn't deleted or modified in any way.

Besides, it keeps me from having to write the annual 15,000 word Deconfliction thread. So, there.

See you in a few weeks at Marmaduke's Raid. I feel guilty saying that, because I live so darn close to the event site. It's just a couple of hills, a flat spot, and a river away.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Well, I can tell you Duffield isn't going to have two companies like was proposed. We cancelled my company due to the same issue you guys are having ... nobody registering. Honestly, I don't blame the ONV or the WIG or the Trans-Miss. In fact I don't blame anybody, without getting political, I can say with some certainty "it's the economy stupid".

Last I heard Stones River didn't have the numbers they wanted either. I don't think it's profitable to turn on each other... we're all experiencing the same issue.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I don't think it's profitable to turn on each other... we're all experiencing the same issue.

Paul,

Well said! The current situation presents yet another impetus for communication, consideration, cooperation, coordination, and reciprocation. This is a great time to get working on deconflicting 2009 and 2010.

Just a thought.

[Coatsy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I mean this in the best way possible.

This fall there are just too many quality events drawing from the same pool of reenactors. In one aspect it is great that there are so many choices. Back in the day... (relatively speaking for me) I remember that these types of events were few and far between. On the other hand these events are not going to have the maximum number of folks attend them from said reenacting pool.

That is a fact.

Before we all start pointing fingers.......cough cough..... Maybe next year events won't get slapped down on top of each other.

IE Piney Woods is in March... People don't put a top tier event down two weeks before or after it. And as for my pet project, Bummers, don't put a top tier down two weeks before or after it or I'll sic Skunk Ape on your butt.

This fall is what it is.... Full! It sucks that........ soap box please..... That event deconfliction could not have worked a little better for this fall.

I'm not running any these events, I'm going to a lot of them, but people.... What do you expect? Not everyone can make all of the events, and with the plethora of events the reenactor base is DILUTED...... I'm bringing a new guy with me to Marmadukes, I wish I could get 5 new guys, plus the jokers of my unit who SAID they would attend, but then they have to get their nails done or something. Don't get me started on that.......

Terry brings up a good point, The Trans Miss Mad Men bring up a good point. What can we do? Well see above....

Sometimes it is a little easier to attend established events than to pop um up on top of each other.

And I'm right btw.