Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Herb,

For a creativity points bonus, now say something that hasn't been said several times each year for the past 12 years. Seriously.

We almost had something going with the late AC Focus Group, but most of those individuals weren't in the event production arena. One of thes social groups could possibly have the same function, and it may save a few zillion emails and endless phone calls. This only works if people put their cards on the table, and many groups are unwilling to do so for obvious reasons.

Such thoughts are still way too extreme.

[Cfarrell]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gents, most of the men who have posted on this thread have been key players in event organizing and know well the stress and hardships it can put on you and your "real" life. Everyone of you I'd like to salute, cause your all much better people then myself.

The AC is a tool for communication...not to point fingers. Just like during the war the Trans Miss today suffers from its grand scale. Plain and simple its damn hard for the Hornets to muster its full size simply because we have members from Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, Nebraska, Kansas...members who pay dues to attend events. Such a large theater and so few authentic's...what's been posted here by my fellow Trans Miss pards is only a frustrated cry.

The mainstreamers here dress in Columbus or Richmond Depot jackets...they talk of the battles of Chickamauga, Gettysburg, Sharpsburg, Wilderness so on and so forth...and the battles fought here in the Trans Miss (at their own back doors) are forgotten leaving only a hand full of dedicated individauls to keep the memory of the Trans Miss alive...battles like Wilson's Creek, Arkansas Post, Mansfield, Pleasant Hill, Sabine Pass, Glorietta Pass, Jenkin's Ferry....I can go on and on, but what good would that do?

None...men died both east and west...north and south...and every direction in between. Before we start bashing on each other let’s take a step back and look beyond our own ego trips and realize what we're really here for.............camaraderie..............sharing a cup of coffee around the fire with someone who you've never meet before (maybe chatted on line with once or twice) that lives hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Regards,

[JimConley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Many good points brought up so far by Brian, Pat C., Paul, and Herbie.

Some of these things were touched on in the Bring Back Your Friends thread last week.

There are a handful of things to consider with the issues surrounding falling event participation numbers, but Paul really brought up probably the biggest contributor, the economy. The simple fact is people just cannot afford to hit as many events in a year's time anymore. As pointed out, none of the fall events are seeing desired numbers of registrants.

I wanted to hit Marmaduke's Raid, Pat Lewis' Chickamauga LH, Ft. Duffield, and Stones River, but it's simply not possible for me to attend all of them. For one, I don't have enough vacation time accumulated. Two, we're understaffed at work because, based on our sales revenue, we cannot afford to hire needed positions. And, the few of us that hold a higher level positions are trying to pick up the slack with our hours being cut while being scolded by supervisors for coming anywhere near overtime. So, I presently do not have the luxury of a flexible schedule or even being granted what vacation time I do have when I want it for an event. And I have a strong feeling that I am not the only one in this situation.

As I mentioned in the thread referenced, there are a large number of events to choose from, which is great that we have growth. But the reality of the economy, family, work, etc forces careful selection of the events people attend. Even if the economy was booming, it would still be difficult for people to attend all the events that strike their fancy.

And, Fred, regarding your quarrel with broken promises and support for Trans-Miss events, that sounds to me as if you need to approach the individuals that are not delivering on their word. From a personal angle, I cannot afford to make events within a few hours of home right now, much less events that are 10-12-15 hours away. I have Eastern Theatre kits and Western Theatre kits that I consider by no means complete. So, building a Trans-Miss kit, which seems to be endless in diversity, is not very practical for me right now for the few times I would be able to actually attend an event over that way. I would have to choose an event that allowed for an impression that would appropriately adapt to the items I do have.

Maybe this is where Charles is right Maybe while the economy is extending its wrath on our hobby, more consultative event organizing would be in order between the East, West, and Trans-Miss. Unfortunately, I do not see such an idea working out because even more carefully scheduled events would still be subject to selection by those of us that are trying to attend the events we want.

It was pointed out within the WIG that Shiloh would be an issue for us early next year because of the expected support for Into The Piney Woods. Of course, the WIG does not want to compete with someone's elses hard work towards their event nor take away from the Battallion's efforts, so the Shiloh gig was pushed back about a month. However, despite the added gap between the two, I fear that we'll run into the same circumstances with selection, even if the event was moved another month. That's just how tough the economy is right now.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Jim, I'm shocked. Positively shocked, I tell you. We almost agree. This is scary.

Season 2009 is pretty darn well bookended with IPW and BIG (dat be Bummers In Gawja) as a well spaced, matched set of extended play events. One five day event tentatively slated for August 2009 has already moved to 2010 to prevent "extended event overkill" for the 2009 season. Didn't even make a blip on the forum. It was simply the right thing to do. Just perhaps, some folks have forgotten about the amount of vacation time sucked up early in 2008 with events such as Winter 1864, and for those who chose to travel to Pennsyvlania for a carpe eventum (thang withing the thang) and campaigner adjunct (event march) as part of a mainstream event in late June. Just to see the numbers, of course, but 2008 is coming to a close.

That leaves a few openings in 2009, and a good number events have already been announced. The hard nut to crack is convincing folks to speak to one another when the events are 18-24 months out (in the conceptual stage), and not the day before the website is splashed for public consumption. Some of that kind of coordination happens, but not enough.

Before the wheels came off the thing, I remember a time when we'd coordinate with the WW2, WW1, and Rev War folks to keep from smacking each other around with the calendars. Some folks reading this may remember that high level of proactivity, but it is past time to get our own house in order. This is a good time to get back to square one.

The "It's the economy, stupid" mantra has had good play on the OTB Forum for about eight months. The fellows who are fretting a foreclosure or downsizing aren't but so concerned with buying a new frock coat or spending $500 in event travel related expenses several times each year, and fuel prices have had a really visible impact.

Of course, I'll readily point out the most vitriol filled arguments on this forum have been event related, chiefly when someone's whitewashed "encampment, skirmish & tractor pull" is somehow not deemed to be as high quality as an event with some actual effort behind it. You know precisely what I mean, too.

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Damn! This is the second time on this forum I've been eulogized! I wasn't even able to get here in time for spin control.
I love my friends though and have felt their frustration. Their words come from genuine feeling. Without bringing up deconflicton or my jacked up life, I think they brought up some pretty good points. This is not the first time some of these views have been addressed.
If you didn't realize it there have been a growing number of people from the Trans-Miss that refuse to go east. I'm glad to see that some of the comments while laced with frustration have stayed pretty tame and constructive. I would have preferred that these things came out in another thread in somebody elses event folder but there it is. I guess I'll act happy and hope that maybe some of it gets ironed out.

Regarding the confilict I did everything I could to avoid it.
To the best of my knowledge fall 2008 was a clean slate. Maybe a deconfliction committee would be a good thing. There really is only one reason I go to the AC anymore and it's to check out the events. It's the one network we have where events are scheduled. Maybe I might have rescheduled but then again I had been mulling over this for about four years and after BGR I decided it was do or die.

Overall I'm happy with the way things have developed with Marmaduke's Raid. With matching funds it looks like we will be able to give $2000 to Ft. Benton. We have enough men (and civilians) to pull this event off the way I envisioned it. I've got Gery Barker -the best wagoner and ox driver in the country, a spot on mountain gun, Plenty of water barrels, dedicated cavalry, good friends that have provided lots of moral support, excellent ground, excellent squad and company commanders and a damn fine Federal commander.

Sure, there were a lot of disappointments along the way, things I wish I had handled differently, and a few people really pissed me off but it does ultimately come back to comaderie. As for whether I ever plan another event we'll see how I weather this one.

If any of you find the cure for the attrition let me know.
Frank Aufmuth

[Michael Comer]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I think folks will attend what they want to attend and what they can attend no matter how much hype something is given. I'll be at Duffield, Marmaduke's and Stone's River because I want to be and can be. Many others can only do one. Some can do none.

I don't really know if the distance thing is that big a factor in the overall scheme of things. I really wanted to attend Winter '64. I pined away for it and tried to figure out how to do it but it just didn't work. I think many are willing to go the distance for good events but sometimes life keeps them away. It does seem that there are a lot of Easterners that hesitate to come West though. I've been to their playground - they're welcome to come to mine.

So, while I buy the distance argument to an extent I don't know if it is the deciding factor in people signing up. I've seen it go both ways. For example, my mess hosted an event here in New Madrid, Missouri this past March. It was uncharted territory for us and we hoped for good support. We had military and civilian from New York, Colorado, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Missouri attend. But what we did not have were a whole lot of Missourians. Why? I don't know. Why did some folks fly halfway across the country to attend while others wouldn't drive a few hours? Was it that they didn't like the sound of the event, they don't like me, they couldn't get off work, they had family needs, they don't do Federal, -who knows? That's the way it goes. The event went off with smaller numbers than I thought I would get but it was still a good event that people enjoyed.

In short, events are what we make of them boys. If we don't support each other whenever we can, we won't have too many good events to attend in the future. There are a lot of excellent events coming up including Marmaduke's which I think will be a highlight for many. I think that Piney Woods and Bummers will be well attended by folks from all over. I'm excited about 2009 and I'm going to have a good time no matter what anyone else does.

I'm rambling aren't I? Think I'll shut up now.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gents-

Gee, now I wished I lived in the South again or nearer to ya'lls events down South, I'd be at Marmy's and event the others mentioned in this thread in a heartbeat. I'd also help coordinate for events with gusto if needed.

But alas, I already flew to my quality event for this year down south when I went to Pickett's Mill. (Man, it was worth it! No doubt...) Events are getting quite expensive to fly to these days, but I can manage about 1 per season to fly to personally.

Be glad if you don't live in the "black-hole of quality events" here in New England. Tom Craig's Lonely Patrol was a great start, but it fell-through due to land difficulties beyond anyone's control. I wished also that I had connections to throw an event here too... but I do not, being a stranger in a strange land.

I'll be at ATB provided no last-minute problems arise, though.

Enough of this pining-away on my part... to the point-

Yet again, Brother Hicks, Craddock, Mr. Sorchy et al. here bring wisdom that in-fighting helps no one and hurts all in the authentic community.

From my 11+ years of reenacting experience, 99% of us mean very well in this hobby- I always let that color my judgement when it comes to fellow hobbyists' perceived intentions first. Give the benefit of the doubt and show charity to everyone as much as possible in interpreting their intentions. We generally, for the most part, know of one-another and a man's word is his bond in such a small community as this- much like 150 years ago, no? I like this aspect of this hobby very much.

Oh... and I try not to read-in too much into people's actions... ;)

Perhaps better communication/coordination on a larger scale for event organizers, a renewed effort individually/as a group to honor our personal committments to events (and honor our event organizers when we cannot attend events we have committed to with a prompt yes/no answer in quick time) would be mutually beneficial for all in this small community.

We could all use and show more consideration in every aspect of the hobby at every level of the hobby always... ;)

See you at F-burg... Johnny Lloyd

PS- If we start a pissing contest in this pool we are all swimming-in- we all lose.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Well, I had about ten different responses written and not sent yesterday on this topic and I now feel like I am ready to respond. Since Jay Stevens made it a point to mention Mess No. 1 by name, I will reply.

I can't speak for all of the members of our mess, other than to say that we voted this as one of our events for this year. Based on attendance of our group in past years, we felt that we could bring 10-15 people to Marmadukes. I can't tell you the reason that each member has chosen not to attend other than to say that this has been a slow year all the way around and based on what others have said here, I know we aren't alone. Some of the guys in the mess have gone through their own personal situations and I do not feel that I have to explain this to anyone nor will I. Things around us have changed and we ALL need to recognize it.

I typically don't like to talk about my personal life, especially on public forums, but since our "honor" has been questioned, I will.

For six years, I attended every event I possibly could. Initially, in 2002, 2003, and 2004 there were mainstream events with the Sixth Ohio as well as the authentic events. I traveled to Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Georgia, South Carolina, and Kentucky over that period. In fact, reenacting took first priority in my life and it was a lot of fun.

A couple of years ago, while continuing to attend events all over the country my marriage began to suffer. My wife was staying at home, while I traveled and she was supportive, but it began to have an effect, nonetheless. The planning for Rich Mountain probably had the most profound effect, because not only was I continuing to travel, but when I was at home, I wasn't really there. I was on the phone continuosly, talking to people, sending e-mails, writing scripts, etc.

After one of the planning trips to Rich Mountain, I came home and my wife had moved out. The sad part is that I wasn't surprised. I had become consumed with getting the event together and meeting each and every obligation to attend events.

By March of 2007, we were divorced. This happened about two days before the Banks Grand Retreat event and I was in no condition to go anywhere. Right up to the last minute, I wanted to attend to maintain my "honor", but life had thrown me a curve and all of the sudden my priorities began to come into perspective. I know for a fact that there were some hard feelings there because of that, but the last thing I was going to do was say anything publicly. A simple phone call from the organizers at the time might have prevented those hard feelings. Partially my fault for not spelling it out? Perhaps. But the phone works both ways.

By the end of 2007, I continued to attend events, but things had changed for me. The urgency of attending every single event just wasn't the same. I tried writing articles for the Historian and made it out to whatever I could.

In November of 2007, my wife and I reconciled and we decided to re-marry and have our first child. We learned that we were pregnant in January of this year (the day after Ohio State took a pretty good licking from LSU in the title game, I might add. ;))

At the time we selected our schedule for 2008, I was unmarried and wanted to continue doing every event that I could and through the mess, supporting different organizations. The day after OSU got their butts handed to them, I found out that I was going to be a father and suddenly, my priorities changed in an instant, including any ill feelings I had by watching my beloved Buckeyes go down in flames. ;)

Once we found we were pregnant, we decided to take a trip to Italy, since we knew that it would be difficult to do once the baby had arrived. This was a trip that we had talked about for years, but because I typically prioritized my vacation based on reenacting, we never did it. Because of this, I didn't attend Winter of '64 and was called out for that by some. I will tell you that it didn't phase me one bit, because, things for me had changed - for the better.

I made a conscious decision at the beginning of this year that because of what happened in my marriage, I was going to put my wife first, and especially, my new family. I attended one event this year - New Hope Church, because our friends in the Armory Guards, who we are working with for Bummers, helped to put it together. I don't plan on attending any other events this year. Next year - well, that might be different, because my personal life will probably settle down and I still have the fire for doing this, but we will see.

Now, fast forward to this present "debate" about Marmadukes. This was a great idea and I have never wished anything but the best to the guys putting it on, because, in my opinion, it is a new idea in the midst of some other events that have been done and re-done. I feel bad that you guys putting on the event feel slighted in some way, but you know what? As has been mentioned several times, we are all in the same boat. And to follow that analogy, if we were all in a life raft together, would it help us survive if we started fighting with each other? Will this type of discussion help us all in the long run, when every Tom-Dick-and-Harry comes to the AC to watch the "Hardcores" "Go at it again"? I can see the rolled eyes, knowing glances and justification for not working with us, because, as some have put it in jest "Hardcores eat each other and are all about ego."

So, here we are in a terrible economy where gas is twice as much as it was last year. People have lost jobs and are selling all their gear in numbers larger than in years past. We are planning Bummers in the hopes that we can attract 500 people on paper. Do you think it has gone unnoticed by us that almost every event that has been put on this year is down in numbers? I have had this conversation numerous times over the past six months with many people, some of whom have posted in this thread.

As far as Bummers goes, we will continue to put out the word. We think we have a great scenario and we think it will be worth the trip. Will you see any of us coming out and berating others in our small community if we don't hit that number? Did we do it when we had 450 people on paper at Rich Mountain and only 320 showed up? No, we didn't. Because that was their choice - just as it was for people to leave on Saturday because of the knapsacks. Short of calling those 130 people individually, I assumed that they had their reasons for not showing up and the last thing any of us who organized it would have done is question their "manhood".

I will not submit to a pissing contest about this issue. I have been on the phone since this was posted yesterday saying roughly the same thing to many as I am saying here. Why go on a public forum and bicker with each other? As has been pointed out, forums are great for communication, but phone calls and personal contact are irreplaceable and can lead to a much better line of communication when it comes to issues like this. Are we all friends, competitors or compatriots? I can't answer that question for you, but I can say for myself that we are all in this together.

Guys, this is a hobby. Many of us are very passionate about it. For those of us who have studied history our whole lives, some of the things we are able to do are incredible. By the same token, all of us are watching as people leave our organizations and show up in fewer numbers at our events. I also know that my personal situation isn't unique. I know for a fact that others have gone through roughly the same things, which is why I felt it important to say what I have. That being said, it shouldn't be the end-all and shouldn't be a reason to fight and call each other out on public forums.

I have come to the conclusion after talking to people that there has been a pent-up frustration from everyone, because we are all suffering from the same issue. Terry's initial post only lit the powder-keg. As Frank said, it could have happened in this folder, or another folder, because Duffield is down in numbers; Stones River is down in numbers and so are other events. The LAST thing that any of us should do, in this situation is to start blaming each other. I was always taught that you can't get upset about the things that you can't contol.

My phone number is 513-755-8770. Anyone who is putting on an event next year, or anyone who has frustration about the things written here is welcome to call me.

[Cfarrell]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

What would it take? Really, what would it take for us to unite once a year as a community of authentic reenactors?

I don't have an answer to that....and I don't know who really does. The bad thing about this hobby is it just keeps splintering and all we are doing is hurting ourselves. Units keep fracturing into smaller and smaller groups until you have handfuls of small three men messes. Sure every once in a while we can muster up enough teamwork to get five or ten messes to form together to make an event.

Man, I know what it's like to organize an event...I've felt the strain and pressure...........and I broke like a freaking twig, but luckily two of the greatest men I know (much better then myself) stepped up and finished the job and are going back for more in 2009.

I'm still picking up the shattered pieces of my real life here in my corner of the world near Houston, Tx. I hurt and let a lot of people down two years ago, but you know what? The people I let down the most were my pards here in the hobby. But you know what else...the first people to welcoming me back were my pards.

The last thing this thread needs to turn into is a bunch of testimonials on why such and such didn't attend this event or that. But it's turned in the right direction...the finger pointing has stopped...tempers have cooled.

Now let’s take it in the direction it needs to go. Let's do what Terry originally had in mind and begin the process of brain storming how things can be approved upon in 2009, 2010, 2011, and beyond. Let's use this tool (the AC) for what it was originally attended for and communicate between one another.

Can it be done? I have no freaking clue...I know a number of the people who have already posted in this thread have the ability to put some things in motion.

Regards to All,

[Anna Allen]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Wow. I'm not even sure I can say much that hasn't already been said. This is actually a very interesting (and somewhat disturbing) thread. I don't know much how events are planned, at least on the military side, 'cause I ain't one of "the guys." But I do understand that sometimes things don't go as we all would have liked them to. I don't think pointing fingers at others is going to help anyone out. It's just going to cause more hurt feelings and pretty soon more people will be leaving the hobby because of the BSing.

It is funny looking back at when I first started this only eleven years ago. The friends I made back then are starting to disappear in the hobby. We've been through this on the forum about the whys and so forth. But I do believe a big reason for so many getting tired of the hobby is because they are through dealing with these petty arguments like this. I guess I'm just getting tired of people fighting with each other because some guy who said they were going to such-and-such event isn't going (oh wow, maybe he has a life outside of the hobby!!) So all of a sudden this guy is an "event poser." Does it really matter why they decided to back out? Does it matter why they chose some other event?

All of these people are fighting and I am sitting here wondering why people can't just get along. This is the kind of spat that I would never in a million years tell my friends (who don't reenact) because they would think I have gone off the deep end and have joined some silly cult. So I guess I will stop blabbing on and on about stuff that people have already written five page essays on. I love the friends I've made in this hobby and I appreciate all the people (whether they are on this side of the river or that). But gee, it's just a hobby.

And Frank, I'm really sorry this had to get posted on your event too. It's going to be great, whether 10 people show up or 500. I will bring the cherry bounce. :)

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I tried to put up some spin control last night but I guess it didn't work.

My event is NOT in distress we have plenty of people coming. I don't want or need anyone to save my event. Since I was mentioned when this began I'll just say I'm a responsible adult and I knew what I was getting myself into. Furthermore, I am presently expecting the same number of people as I had anticipated.

If anyone is whining about numbers or whatever it isn't me. This discussion has outgrown this little event folder and quite frankly is not helping my efforts. I spent four years on this project so if anyone's mad about something let it be me. Some of you aren't coming we'll get over it. Comments from both sides have been noted but in all fairness and all due respect I wish you'd all just shut up about it or at least move it to a new thread somewhere else.

Sincerely,
Frank Aufmuth

[paulcalloway]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Honoring Franks request to move the discussion to the Sinks.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I think this community needs to take a deap breath and check its pulse.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

FWIW,
In my experience, folks on this end of the hobby have been universally unselfish and outwardly focussed. This is in full evidence with the fact that company officers and NCO positions are mostly on a "per event" basis and battalion level organizations are not fiefdoms (sp?) ruled by "CFL's". Heck, the WIG is going to elect its third commander in under a decade!

So, yes, I agree with those who have said we should be gracious to each other. Let's not assume the worst when things don't go as we might have wished, or folks we thought would attend can't make it. I don't think the hobby is imploding... we're just rolling with the tide. There will be an upswing soon, hopefully in conjunction with the sesquicentennial.

...or maybe I'm just naive...
;)

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I don't think the hobby is imploding... we're just rolling with the tide. There will be an upswing soon, hopefully in conjunction with the sesquicentennial.

Agreed John. Agreed. Nothing wrong with optimism. :D