Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

This event is way out of my lane but please pardon the questions...

Does one send funds to Star of the West Society to support the preservation part ?

I suppose there are no planned opportunities for spectator viewing ?

Obliged,

CJ Rideout

[Cfarrell]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Christopher,

I have sent you a private message regarding your questions. This thread is no longer about Marmaduke's. ;)

Regards,

[C.R. Henderson]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I'm not one to normally post on threads like this but the "check the pulse" comment struck a chord with me. As many of you know, I'm a woodworker- professionally as well as my other hobby. I read incessantly about woodworking techniques to better myself (I often get in trouble from my CFO about buying too many woodworking magazines). I think I research more on 19th century woodworking than I do on the CW...but I digress.

In reading one of said magazines today (Fine Woodworking Oct. 2008 No. 200), the editor's letter said volumes about mistakes, obsession, and tunnel vision. Woodworkers, much like historians, are often obsessive critters- getting to know every nook , cranny, grain change, etc.- much like we get that way as reenactors with our material culture, event planning, etc. In one tale, the author described seeing a handmade mahogany armoire that was stunningly gorgeous. He was complimenting the gentleman who made it on his ability, workmanship, and the wood he chose to work with. The man, surprised, thanked him and proceeded to show the author where he cut dovetails on the wrong side of the line, where he tore out some wood with a plane when he was smoothing a panel, and several other mistakes. the author couldn't believe that this master craftsman was showing him this when the piece was speaking for itself. It was in this thought that he had an epiphany; Why do we beat ourselves up over the small imperfections, mistakes, and the things nobody cares about?

The average Joe doesn't mind that numbers are down or that so-n-so is going to this event or that. I think the overall scope is that WE, as a community of dedicated and determined individuals, are making great strides in the ways of authenticity with our research, devotion to our time period, and our pledges of preservation to the sites, collections, and the movements that are going to perpetuate the memory of the domestic conflict that occurred over 140 years ago as well as the lives that those people lived during that period (to all the English Grads, I'm sorry if that was one big run on sentence.) WE need to take a step back and take a look at our own "armoire" of a hobby- with all of its goodness AND imperfections and see that we have done good and we are making progress whether it is fast or slow.

To quote Oddball, "What's with all the negative waves?"

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I will attempt to rasp a few of the hard edges off my post and also steer things away from Marmaduke's Raid specifically and to a broader level.

As Frank has said- his event is fine. As he and others have said- it will be good with 5, 50, or 500.

The root of my frustration lies in the fact that this IS a small hobby and that if we can't hold some degree of personal honor and be men and women of our word then what sort of folks are we?

I have heard that the NPS can dictate a date. So be it. The other side to that pancake is to say "much as we'd love to be at X battlefield when you've said we have to come, that puts us too close for comfort to another event and so we're going to pass this time around." Nothing wrong with putting it back a year. Yes, that's a tougher thing to make but it's the right course of action.

If a unit votes to attend an event, why can't those men hold themselves to their word?

One post indicated that event organizers need to call or contact folks who have pledged that they or their units would support an event to be sure they still intend to come, that nothing has changed. If that's the case, what the heck was the point of pledging one's word in the first place if they need to be reminded of it?

What chafes me a fair bit is individual accountability. All the guys at events like TAG, Fighting Withdrawal, Rich Mountain, Outpost, Pickett's Mill, AHT, etc- when you see the guys from Missouri, Texas, California, Arizona, etc standing next to you, do you take that for granted or does something inside you say "man, those guys came a long friggin' way to support this event and I need to repay that." In most cases I'd say I guess not. Don't take the guy next to you for granted or there's a good chance you'll get a taste of your own medicine.

I re-affirm what I said previously- we all need to be folks of our word, to live up to our commitments, and to be better stewards of calendar management. A lot of the folks who have chimed in on this thread are leaders and motivators of men. Lead and motivate. We need to hear from you with good AAR's, not belly-aching, whining, or excuse-making.

Try to realize the general level of frustration of many folks who have made trips, heard promises, and then been left twisting in the wind. I'm not trying to belabor the point excessively on that topic but it's that issue that gets my goat. I don't call that finger-pointing; I call that us trying to keep ourselves honest. This IS a small hobby. The vast bulk of the people posting in this thread know one another, at least in passing, and see one another with a fair degree of frequency. We've got to keep a degree of accountability.

Support authentic events.

Honor your committments.

Recall the folks who have stood shoulder-to-shoulder with you and who have supported your events.

Be a man of your word.

Regards,

[coastaltrash]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Fred,
As far as Stone's River goes, the group hosting did vote on that. Just wanted to clear the air a bit. I know I've gone to some events with word or honor or whatever that guys were going to show up where I hosted, but never saw a one. Did it bother me, not really. I looked at the Federal Battalion commander, his adjutant (From Canada) the federal company commander from the Former land of Farve, and was really impressed with what we just ALL did.

I understand your frustration, and where you're coming from. My new answer to a lot of the events is 'I'll see what I can do'. I don't think these events make anyone more or less of a man. Most of us have a family in one way shape or another, keep a word with them and be a real man, because Monday counts. Last I checked the WIG had 2 events on the other side of the big scary river since 2005. Not one down this way though, maybe the "Big Scary River" everyone refers to is the Pearl or Tangipahoa?

So now that we see the problem, what is the solution? I can't make vacation time, so I know I can't make Piney Woods. I'm going to be a man and keep my word to my future wife, and continue to do that, and if I get time for this hobby, if I continue to want to, then I'll show myself. Anyone that wants to disagree with that is more than welcome to call me, I will supply my phone number upon request.

[Cfarrell]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Patrick,

I can't make vacation time either, and boy I wish we could. I'd make Marmaduke's, Stone's River, Fort Duffield, IPW, Bummers, and every dog and pony show in between. But like you man, I know that ain't happen'in with a wife to look after now. (I got married in June.) But I know you aren't just going to stop going to events. You, Pat wither you like it or not are one of the individuals who could make something happen. You have a great amount of experience you could bring to the table..........

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Pat,

Not to forget some other fellows at Vickburg who drove in from New Jersey, Virginia, and Maryland....

[coastaltrash]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Chawls,
Thought I mentioned that, but apologize for not going further on my list. Hopefully you take some peace in knowing your cooking has forever scarred the battlefield of Vicksburg with the aroma of vittles unknown to man nor science.

Can't forget that same bastid cook came down to Donelson to witness the Pie speech and Vineagar tasting and Dauphin Island to witness the Casemate Players. Mighty fine times.

That is another thing event organizers need to realize, and this was explained to me by Obiwon Kinobecraddock, you can plan and plan and plan ideas and little pieces of an event, you can line everything up square to go off. But in the end, getting someone to participate in a single part of an event is just like getting someone to attend an event- it is entirely up to the individual. We didn't plan any of the memories we have for events, it just happened.

Doesn't matter if I hosted an adjunct at the pit area in Talledaga Motorspeedway, and someone else hosted the best, most hardcore event on the planet the same weekend, someone, somewhere in this hobby would still show up to do one over the other. It's just the way things happen.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Pat,

Just call me Pollyanna, but in a hobby with about a dozen event organizers, and less than 350 active participants, the average Joe would think we could do a better job coordinating a handful of primary events, and a double handful of secondary events. IMHO, the "trash event sump" cuts both ways, but it has reduced the considerable screaming and crying from certain sectors.

Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to Marmaduke's Raid, Westville, and After the Battle....oh, and that little thing this weekend.

[Cfarrell]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Build it and they will come.

Curt Schmidt – Bring Them Back thread 8-8-08

1) What I mean by politics is inter and intra unit politics on "our" side of the hobby. Those of you who have been watching this show for a while can't count the number of units/messes/squads that have come and go since 2000. Many of those units were born out of ugly fueds within units that lead to splinters and more splinters. Our side of this hobby has been small enough, but thanks to politics (at least here in the east) that small hobby has been broken into smaller bits time and again by politics. So, a lot of people just got tired of the same old fights lead by the same old egos, and simply checked out.

2) Stagnation of the Hobby: This may cause some heartburn, and some of you may passionately disagree, but I actually argue that in MOST facets of our side of the hobby things have stagnated. About three or four years ago at a CR COI several of us had a discussion about the fact that progressive has become the new mainstream.

As the progressive has grown in number (a good thing), it has diluted in quality. It is easier than ever to buy good gear and access already done research. There are certainly some notable exceptions (Charles Heath with rations, John Cleaveland with events to name two), but overall I feel that our side of things have stagnated and that has lead many veterans to boredom, and frustration. When your hobby has gotten boring, it's time to leave.

How do we fix it? I think Curt, as one of those veterans, has the right idea. Build something worthy of coming out of retirement and they will come. I know several of my veteran pards who were on the verge of quiting the hobby have joined me in the cavalry, and have found something new to be excited about in reenacting. I know for myself I try to change up the things I do every three years or so to keep it fresh for me. The answer for everyone is different, but I think pushing the envelope helps to bring some of our old friends back into the fold.

Tom Craig – Bring Them Back thread 8-8-08

Politics/Personal Stipulations
Pat Landrum put it well in another thread when he said, “The underlying political stink and cheap shots in this side of the hobby is getting about as bad as it is in the mainstream, if not worse.” Both ends of the hobby have competitive groups and individuals. On this end, where we strive for better experiences, that competitive spirit has become almost as harmful as a group of intensive ‘streamers that exalt in winning a battle re-enactment as if the war happened yesterday, and with little validation. It’s a fact that certain groups are better than others because they uphold standards and expectations more strictly than others, and that will obviously depend upon perspective and overall objective or intent. But, guess what? Even some of the best groups are still lacking too, in more than one area.

I truly believe that the problem stems from the simple fact that there is no longer a clear definition of what we're doing. It used to be one or the other, "re-enactor" or "hardcore," and now we have all these varying levels and interpretations of what makes this type of "authentic" better than that type of "authentic."

Jim Conley – Bring Them Back thread 8-9-08

Just call me Pollyanna, but in a hobby with about a dozen event organizers, and less than 350 active participants, the average Joe would think we could do a better job coordinating a handful of primary events, and a double handful of secondary events. IMHO, the "trash event sump" cuts both ways, but it has reduced the considerable screaming and crying from certain sectors.

Charles Heath - This thread - 8-21-08

I think this community needs to take a deap breath and check its pulse.

Dale Beasley - This thread - 8-21-08


I did not edit any of these posts in any way shape or form except for not posting some of them in their entirety. Read them as you will, but for me they all seem to be saying the same thing. These are all guy's that have been around the hobby for a while and have seen and done a great many things. I believe them to have a unique understanding of the hobby along with many who I did not select to quote in order to keep this post relatively short. (Ain't going to happen is it...)

For me the whole thing boils down to friends. I have great friends in this hobby, in fact, one is standing in my wedding next year along with guys that have been friends of mine since I was in preschool. I've done about as much as I can do in this hobby, I've marched, I've boiled in wool, I've woken up at an event and had to knock ice out of my canteen and wait for the frost to melt off my blanket. I've been a Private to a Captain in this hobby several times over, and at the end of the day, that and a $1.50 could buy me a cup of coffee.

Patrick Landrum – What Keeps You Going thread – 8-10-08

I wanted to start reenacting because of my interest in the conflict. Since then, I, like others above, have come to value the friendships I've developed, and consider that a greater attraction to stay in the hobby above all other considerations. Having stated that... I have, and will continue to go to events even if those 'close friends in the hobby' aren't involved, simply because we continue to have good events offered. When those friends are also at the event, the shared experience makes participating even more enjoyable.

Brian Hicks – What Keeps You Going thread – 8-10-08

I quoted Landrum and Brian because they speak of friendships. If it wasn't for my friends in the hobby I would never have come back. I go to events for one reason to spend time with some good friends...if they attend a certain event I'll tag along and normally I come back from those events having new friends. I don't know how big the authentic community is, but I do know we depend on one another...some manufacture gear, others organize events, and some just show up. It’s a circle and without each other none of us would have a "hobby" like this to spend our weekends. I believe a greater amount of cooperation can be achieved if we all stop bickering between one another and start working together.

Build it and they will come!!! Then let us band together as members of a unique community...develop the building blocks necessary to "build" an event where "they" (us) will come!!!

Regards,

[Justin Morris]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Well, I've sat here, read, thought and just wanted to throw in a few words, most of which have been stated.
First, gentlemen, this is a hobby.
By 2006, I had become so involved in the hobby that I had forgotten many reasons I enjoyed reenacting. I had become bitter, tired, burned out and just needed a break, a long break. I sold it all, yes, all but the Enfield and cartridge box. I took a different path entirely. I had been all about the Civil War from when I went to my first reenactment as a spectator at Shiloh in 1987 up until March of 2006. I read something everyday about the War and went to every musuem and battlefield I could. When I had what we shall call the great meltdown of '06, I didn't touch a Civil War related book, magazine, article, picture, no museums, battlefields, etc. until March of 2008. This was the best thing I could have ever done. It gave me a new perspective and made me remember why I wanted to be a reenactor; to remember and honor my ancestors, the men that fought and died on both sides, and to spend time with some of the closest friends I've ever made. The thing that keeps me coming to events are the friends I'll see and the new friends I'll make. Friends like Woodburn, Landrum, Ellis, Milbert, Craddock, Hicks, Hurst, Tilley, Runyon, Boozie, Baker, Jay Stevens, Michael Comer, Warren Hook, Steve Ewing, Eric Tipton, Evan Zimmerman and the list goes on and on.
We must form a planning committee somehow, someway. I know it will be hard, but nothing worth a damn is easy (take marriage for example). Every organization out there, whether the GHTI, ONV, Tater Mess, New Madrid Guard, WIG, Independent Rifles, Liberty Rifles, Stonewall Brigade, Mess #1, Amory Guards, and many more have some type of leadership. The leadership of these organizations are ultimately responsible for spreading the word and staying in contact with their men.

Is there anyway possible for each organization to send two delegates every October to a meeting for the authentic community? Is it time to once and for all, set aside personal desires to be an officer at every event, and do what is best for the authentic community?

Thoughts? Good, bad or indifferent.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Is there anyway possible for each organization to send two delegates every October to a meeting for the authentic community?

Thoughs, good, bad or indifferent?

I think it is a good idea.

Others may say that maybe it has been tried in the past, but failed, or that it won't work, or that you'll never be able to "unite the clans" (how's come Mel didn't have a beard in that flick?). However, I disagree. I think there's enough interest in keeping the ball rolling on this end of the hobby. That, combined with increasing travel costs and shrinking active membership, we'll have to work harder to pool our resources if we want to have (what we consider) larger events.

On thought: If October is the designated month to meet, I think you'd have to do it in conjunction with an event. September and October are usually PACKED with events. July or December might be easier.

[Annette Bethke]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I believe the committee would be a great idea. I do ask you to remember to include organizers of civilian centered events as well. Occassionally these events draw from the same pool as the high profile military events and it would be nice to be able to work the civilian centered events around some of the bigger military events.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

We have been to the last three December WIG annual meetings, since they have had a large hand in organizing and/or supplying events with manpower. I have always thought that it was a good platform to see each other outside of events where everyone is in a hurry to get in on Friday and in a hurry to get out on Sunday morning.

I think an annual meeting is a great idea during the "off-season" - November - February. The only rub, I guess is that once a location for the meeting is picked, someone always has very little drive and some have a very long drive. I guess that could be solved by rotating the meeting to different locations. I can only speak for myself, but I would be willing to talk to others about the potential to get something like that together.

[joey12thga]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

This thing can be accomplished. I believe we wanna over think it and let egos get in the way. Break it down to regions or states , or hell even theaters. Get all the campaigner messes with more than one active member to send a rep with events they are interested in doing or putting and then go to a local/regional/whatever meeting. Lock them in a room for 48 hours and the survivor will go to the National meeting…repeat in a larger room with stronger locks. Winner takes all……………..