Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gentlemen,

As a new recruit to this hobby, it is a bit distressing to me to see how this thread is playing out.

Having read this thread over several days and spending several hours thinking about how it makes me feel, I have to say, I took Terry's inital post simply as a way of asking why people had decided not to attend Marmaduke. And after reading thru the replys I think he can safely be assured it is not anything personal against him.

I seem to be picking up on some hard feeling from several posters for things I would have no way of understanding at this point, but what does seem to be coming through loud and clear is there are a lot of people passionate about the hobby, but circumstances prevent attending everything.

In my own case, I just decided it was something I wanted to do in March. I have slowly been buying the kit and am really looking forward to my first time. However, in between my deciding to do it and actually doing it, I found out I was to be a father for the first time. In fact, it is a first for the both of us, and we are not exactly young anymore and I have to admit, while I was really gung ho, my attention is now split so I can only imagine how life would get in the way of someone that has been doing it a while not to even mention the soaring cost I have been seeing on everything.

I would never say, can't we all just get along, because I am old enough to know that is not going to happen. But there appears to be enough sound leadership around to hold this whole thing together.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do not see the passion for the hobby going away in the near future, although because sometimes real life does get in the way, maybe there will have to be changing expectations of the event organizers.

I for one hope I am not joining the dying end of the hobby and I don't think I am.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Rest your fears of getting into the "dying end of the hobby". People have been predicting the end of the hobby for most of the 32 years I have been involved with CW reenacting. Go out and enjoy yourself.

[Cfarrell]

Abel,

Like Jim said, stick around long enough and you'll see people in "our" side of the hobby get at each other’s throats. This side of the hobby has a way of hurting itself more than anything. I hope though...what you are seeing here is perhaps a step forward in communication and cooperation.

Regards,

Cody G. Farrell

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Rest your fears of getting into the "dying end of the hobby". People have been predicting the end of the hobby for most of the 32 years I have been involved with CW reenacting. Go out and enjoy yourself.

Thanks for the reasurance Jim. But, I also remember people predicting $5 a gallon gas, and I have almost seen it happen.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Like Jim said, stick around long enough and you'll see people in "our" side of the hobby get at each other’s throats. This side of the hobby has a way of hurting itself more than anything. I hope though...what you are seeing here is perhaps a step forward in communication and cooperation.

Regards,

Cody G. Farrell

Reenacting as everything else seems to have periods of old hurt feelings and frustrations rearing their heads at times.

I think it is probably just the natural progression of things.

My brother was recently killed in an ATV accident and I am somewhat haunted over a tiff we had many years ago that we never really made up over. I have decided small things really do not matter and I am looking at the reenacting community as a large family.

You can have your disagreements and hurt feelings, but in the end, does it really matter? Or is it really our own fault if we hang on to those feelings too long?

And I hope to see many years of use out of my recently purchased firearm as it amounts to all my birthday and Christmas presents for a few years yet to come I fear.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Thanks for the reasurance Jim. But, I also remember people predicting $5 a gallon gas, and I have almost seen it happen.

If that is the way you see it, get out now and save yourself the headache.

[Old Reb]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Having had a chance to read the entire thread and chew on it for a while, I am pleased that no one has threatened to do the Dance of the Bowie on someone for calling them a yellow bellied poser puke or banished them to the eternal hell of cyber space. I applaud the moderators for allowing such a free discourse and venting. Back in the good old days I would have been banned, but things do improve and that is a positive. What I read is some folks get riled when other folks don't come to this or that event. I operate under this premise; "I go where I want to go with whom I want to go with." If folks don't want to attend an event, or schedule one on top of another, that is too bad, but shit happens. I know many of you because I have been in the field with you. I like most of you and don't care spit for a few, but it doesn't matter much, because we still don't shoot real bullets and we get to go home on Sundays. Regardless, I think the discussion and the venting is a good thing for our end of the hobby. But it still boils down to going where you want to go with whom you want to go. It is also clear that there are fewer true campaigners than the keyboard folks that call themselves campaigners because they bought a good kit and hung out with the “right” crowd and attended the overly hyped but disappointing events, but that is another story saved for another day.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

If that is the way you see it, get out now and save yourself the headache.

Thanks for the insightful words of wisdom. I have suddenly decided maybe this is not for me after all. I do not need anymore "headaches" in my life and if that is how a seasoned reenactor describes the events, it must be so.

I suppose my first gut feelings on reading this thread were correct afterall.

I will take stock and head over to the for sale forum shortly.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gentlemen and those of you from Texas,

I am going to be brief. There are people on this thread who really like to hear themselves talk. There are people on this thread who like to throw around names, who strive to be apart of cliques and seek to be worshiped. There are people on this thread who simply have no vision and who could not find their rear-ends with both hands when it comes to Military Leadership and Organization.

Now do I have your attention?

Please listen to me for just a min. then make your own decision. I have an interest here. I will retire from the ARMY soon and want to be a Private in a place representing a Military Unit. I have been apart of an organization which built the ARMY that invaded Iraq. And the same crap I heard then, I am hearing now.

When you elect leaders of Organizations don't vote on the ones with good jackets, dont vote for the ones who have organized events if they cant lead troops. Vote for the ones who have proven ability to lead troops.

And if you all decide to create a Brigade to incorporate the BNs, do not bog-down on the naming of the companies, do away with the "Mess Mentality" and create companies. Create a Military UNIT...I mean you try to dress like real soldiers, then create a Brigade that everyone can rally around.

I watched the reeancting Unit CLEBURNES fall apart becasue of no Vision, and much of the same "Mess Mentality" we are seeing now.

Its time to replace those who want to be worshiped, it is time to replace those who have the "Mess Mentality" with those of Vision. We could grow, but you would have to build a Brigade first.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Thanks for the PMs guys.

Prehaps I was hasty in my decision.

Or maybe I was trying to show how something very simple could be what turns some possible new people away from trying the hobby.

I apologize for having to use Jim's post to crudely show what could happen to a new person thinking about joining the ranks. I know it was just a come back to my post and no offense was taken at all. In no way did it really turned me off the hobby.

I do not think the hobby is dying, but after reading these forums for several months now, I do think it is changing and new blood will have to be brought in.

While I have never been on the battlefield as a participant, I have been to many events as a spectator because I have always been interested in history. To be honest, probably more to the tune of the revolutionary war, but somehow I feel closer to the civil war. Maybe it is because I am a southener.

So, I am sorry for the interuption in the flow, carry on.

One last thought. I think some recruiting could be done at the actual events. Has anything like that ever been tried? I have been to many events and I was the one that actually had to make the effort to find out what I needed to get started and basically all I was really told was about this website. I guess everyone was just laying around too tired to care, but maybe print out flyers people could take and who to get in touch with if interested in participating. I am not really the person to know these things yet, but I say, fire as many people up as possible.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Guys,

These arguments / discussions have been going on for as long as I have been in the hobby, if any thing has been constant it has been these. The problems and solutions have not changed only the names of the people presenting them.

Is any thing really going to change? It is highly doubtful, I have not seen it change in 32 years of people trying to change it and if they haven't changed anything in 32 years it is extremely unlikely they will be changing things any time soon.

As I said in my original post in this thread - "Go out and enjoy yourself". Don't worry about things that are beyond your ability to change them, keep your little corner of the hobby squared away and you will enjoy yourself.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Jim,
I truly respect your long service in this reeacting community. I also appriciate the long sevice you have given to this Web-site. But Jim, if we continue on the course we are on now, we will simply find ourselves walking away wondering what the hell went wrong...much like CLeburnes did.

By use of this Web-Site we have the means to organize, we have the means to create a new Mission Statement. Hell, if we can have polls voting on what matches to buy and who has the best picture on the "Cover of the Rolling Stone" we can use this site for the true organization, voting and creation of the future of our hobby for the next ten years.

But if we continiue to follow those who wish to be worshiped and those who can not lead, we will be following the same future of the dinosaurs. I simply can not put my head in the sand. But then again how to you describe a rainbow to a blind man.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Nothing really has changed all that much in all the time I have been in the hobby and I do not expect it to. What I see being described is to me the natural course of the hobby over the years, it ebbs and flows in one direction then another always returning to about the same place it was.

I discussed this very topic some months ago with another fellow who has been in this hobby about as long as I have maybe a bit longer. What we saw was that with each new crop of reenactors they "discover" a new problem in the hobby offering solutions never realizing that the topic had been discovered, solutions offered and plans made many times over the years with no changes coming. Unfortunately developing the type organization you describe would be akin to herding cats - too many wants and needs, too many egos, too many reasons for an individual to be in the hobby in the first place. If you could pull it off it would be great but I have seen this movie played out too many times over the years to have much hope in it succeeding on anything other than a local/unit or regional level.

"But if we continiue to follow those who wish to be worshiped and those who can not lead..."

This is not unique to Civil War reenacting; you will see the same situations in Rev War, WWII and all the others. For the most part those in charge of units are there simply because they won the popularity contest that put them there. Their status is not based on any real experience or military training; they just got there because they were liked better than the other guy. Unfortunately once they get there getting them out is a big problem and if removal is successful the end result is usually that a unit disintegrates. Many times a poor leader is kept in his position for the good of the unit because to remove him would destroy what people were trying to maintain in the first place. All this is simply the nature of the beast we call reenacting.

I do not see any reason to believe the hobby as a whole is headed to hell in a hand basket. My only reason for commenting in this thread was to assure Abel that he was not getting into the "dying end of the hobby".

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Hell Jim,

If I was Obama, I would ask you to be my Vice-President!!! :)

Gotta Go...have to move cows.

[Campjacksonboy]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Dale
I read your post with interest. As much as I see some wisdom in turning towards a brigade mentality. I think a little history is in order.

We may not have been the first but I'll take credit for it anyway. Around 12 years ago, the messes began popping up. I believe it was the Skulker's Mess that started the "Mess" trend. I was a charter member of the Skulkers Mess and was there the day we sat in the Chair Makers shop at Boonesfield hashing between names like "Skulkers," and "Missouri Boys" and deciding that we didn't want any structure what so ever and so the name Skulker's Mess stuck. I remember feeling a little miffed because I had actually tried to write a constitution.

The idea for the mess actually goes back to 1994 when four of us went to this new type of event that became immortalized as Red River 1. This is how I was introduced to the campaign movement. We came back home to our home units which were structured much as you advise. However, our home units were not into campaigning, or authenticity. For example, they did bayonet charges on battlefields where they never happened continually disregarding the history of the places we were going. The company had monthly meetings which I attended almost religiously. I don't know how I'd do it today.
My pards and I left the old "Company" after a fall out over falling in with this new experimental unit called the Macon County Silver Grays. Actually the plan was to fall in with this new group and bring ideas back to the old company. We had tried to "cleanse from within" but things got hostile quickly for many sordid reasons but the bottom line was politics. The Brigade commander supported the interests of the larger half of the brigade and openly scorned the new ideas we had been exposed to

Part of the reason for the mess mentality, at least from the Skulker's Point of veiw, was that we could fall in with whomever, go where ever, not have to fight for what we wanted to get out of the hobby. and best of all be free of all the politics we had so recently left.
For years there was resistance for any attemps to form anything larger than a company with a few messes. I remember seeing 25 men in good kits come together in 1995 and watch them go off on their own because the leadership was lacking and there was no desire to do something to hold it together just for one weekend. As you can see there seemed to be a period of evolution during the 1990's

I think Wilsons Creek 2000 was the first time we had a battalion however short lived it was. We had 90 men make the march from the Ray House to the event site and more were on the way. (To this day I regret that no one took a picture) And then it rained. The rumor spread that the event was cancelled others simply weren't waterproof. Saturday morning only 30 remained. Soon after the WIG pulled it off. I'd like to think it was because it didn't rain but then again I don't really remember when the WIG had their first event but I think it was at Shiloh.

With that having been said a company, battalion and brigade is only as good as the men in it. I've watched events desintigrate in a parking lot. I've heard camp talk morph into "The Family Guy." I've had a years worth of work go up in smoke when guys with good kits run home at the least sign of rain. More recently, I've seen and heard of companies not materializing for many mysterious reasons. I'm leery that if the smaller messes can't do it the larger companies will most certainly fall apart for the same reasons. By the same token if we can't even fill a company how will the brigade thing work. Since this is a hobby commitment is optional.

The Skulkers Mess eventually fell apart for reasons similar to what you say happend to Cleburns but I'll call it a lack of desire, burn out, and people not wanting to follow me.

I read earlier posts about forming a brigade and was reminded of George Orwell's, Animal Farm. I guess things do go full circle.
It is commendable that the WIG will have had three commanders in less than ten years. I'm glad of the opportunities they, the Tatermess and the Ground Hornets have allowed me to have. I guess we've blown the "no politics" rule several times just on the AC alone. Except now someone bashes you on the forums and acts like your best buddy a the event.
I'd hate us to loose some of the things we have now. Namely, the freedom the smaller unit has versus the umteen different events the Mainstream battalion has every year. They don't even have time to do anything unique or different. I don't miss the "Captain or Colonel for life" either.

Then again event conflicts bite. I think the brigade concept would be fun for awhile if it worked but whatever happens let's not forget what we're about and the reasons why we formed those messes.
Frank Aufmuth