Civil War Degrees of Separation

[Sweatshop Tailor]

I was reading Stephen Cushman's Bloody Promenade recently, and he spoke about the fading of degrees of separation from the Civil War as time elapses. In other words, someone in the early 20th century could have known a number of Civil War veterans, whereas today people at best will have known someone who knew Civil War veterans. As we continue to drift away in time from the central event will it continue to change the way we think about the war?

In my own particular case, I know that my attitudes early in life were strongly shaped by my grandma who knew her own grandfather who had served in Co.E of the 2nd Texas Mounted Rifles in the New Mexico campaign. She was very much a Southern chauvanist and to hear her talk our family was Rebel through and through. Certainly she made it very clear to me that the Civil War was a living issue and that she had seen the result of it (old Confederate veterans, amputee's, lost fortunes etc.). As my mother said to me when she first saw me in 'Western Federal impression:' "your Grandma is spinning in her grave!"

Yet, I would suggest today that my grandma was already being affected by attitudinal shift in her own proper generation (the Romanticization of the 'Lost Cause' `a la Gone with the Wind). I doubt her opinions were the same as those of her grandparents generation who she knew and which were actually caught up in the events. My family on that side were all Texas-Germans or Louisiana-French and while some served from the outset in 1861 others held back until drafted, or used the immigrants clause to leave service in 1862. None had owned slaves. Doing the geneaology, I found that my Grandma's Godmother (her Gr-Aunt) - her favourite person - had even married a former 9th NY Hawkins Zouave in 1866 (he died before my grandma was born), and her Gr-Grandfather was a member of the local Rebublican Reconstruction government in Galveston. So her childhood memories had probably been filtered from through the Southern revival of her youth in the 1900s and 1910s.

Despite all this, I think it was the vitalness and passion of the 'memories' of my grandparent's generation on Galveston that drove my boyhood interest in the war.

So, I invite contributions to this thread on two themes: how many folks are left with only one degree of separation from the war, and how memory received from that generation has affected us.

[Trish Hasenmueller]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

I have a friend and fellow teacher from one of the founding families of Maury County, TN. Her grandfather was ten years old when he sat on her driveway gate and watched the Union army march into Columbia. She explains it by saying every generation of her family has waited till later than most people to have their children.

Trish Hasenmueller

[redleggeddevil]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

My father, only recently deceased, recalled meeting several Civil War veterans in his youth. The real lingering impact of the war, however, was felt closer to home.

My father was born in New York, although all of his mother's family was from Virginia. He divided his time between North and South. Passing through Delaware on the way home, he would often stay overnight with Miss Elsie Du Pont, a distant cousin.

My grandmother would always remind my father to conceal his Northern heritage, as Miss Elsie would never allow a Yankee under her roof.

"Why?", my father asked.

It went back to when Miss Elsie was a little girl. She and her nanny were traveling through the railroad station in Washington when they were rudely jostled by Union troops rushing to the Battle of Bull Run. She had held a grudge against the North ever since.

Miss Elsie died long before I ever met her, and my father is gone now. Still, something of the memory lives on, at least so long as I remain.

[Jubilo]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Dear Mr. MacDonald ,
In both Northern and Southern states , immigration has distilled the population so that those with ties to the Civil War are few and far between . I think future generations will study the " Quaint Cotton States Rebellion ," as we do Shays or the Whiskey Rebellions . The plethora of images of the various beard shapes will amuse folks as does Hitler's mustache ( or is that Charlie Chaplain ? Which one was the Nazi guy ? ) .
all for the old flag,
David Corbett

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Dad went to dinner with his great-uncles who were veterans of Gettysburg (Moses) and Vicksburg (Frank.) Mom's mother was born in 1895. She knew some of her family had been in the war, but they didn't like to talk about it. She lived among the survivors of the 15th OVI all her life. Pop, her husband, was the grandson of two veterans, probably both from the 15th. I missed our most entertaining local historian when Maywood Gallaher died during WWII; he was born in 1856 and wrote down his recollections of the day the riders came to spread the call for volunteers in the spring of 1861.

One afternoon about 1961, the retired schoolteachers up the road called to see if Dad would fix some little thing for them. As always, he went up, but this time the ladies were giggling. "We want to pay you," one said. He argued that he hadn't taken their money yet and didn't intend to start, but the eldest pulled out a wallet. "I don't think you'll turn this down."
The wallet was stiff and battered, the bills within stuck together. She pried out three bills. "Dad had those in his pocket when he got wounded," she said. "We're giving the rest to the museum, but..." Her father was one of four brothers who went off. The three Union boys came home; the Confederate lawyer didn't. Time finally softened the other three to take the original inscriiption off his tomb and replace it with "A young lawyer who gave his life for the Constitution". It sure beat "May his soul rest in eternal d*mnation". They only stayed mad for the first fifty years or so.

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

This is primarily why I became a Civil War historian, for as a youngster I was surrounded by folks with one degree and remembered all of their family stories. People in my neighborhood still talked about what it was like when the Yankees came after the battle of Gilgal Church, which took place 300 yards from my childhood home. Another relative used to tell me how John Bell Hood recuperated in their house after the battle of Chickamauga before moving to a hospital further south.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

My grandpa's dad served as a Federal soldier. He married my g-grandmother late in life and died pretty early in my g-father's childhood. But in this day and age having a g-grandfather as a Civil War veteran is pretty rare I believe.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Hallo!

I am separated from some 25 plus Civil War veteran ancestors by factors of "two greats," meaning great-great grandfathers and great-great uncles.

My only "personal connection," was the 90-some year old grandmother of a friend who had had married an elderly Confederate veteran when she was very young, and had been a widow for 60-some years when he died in the 1930's.

IMHO, as with all wars and conflicts, and the cosmic events in those everyday lives- as Time passes the intensity of the experiences fade and mutate with every generation.
As a kid, I had living WWI veteran relatives, and a WWII/Korean War father.

Now, my wife, a former high school history teacher (they do not teach History beyond 9th grade now since No Child Left Behind and the Ohio Graduation Test), used to "complain" that there is a "disconnect" between high school students who were born since the Viet Nam War and see it as "ancient history."

But yes, IMHO, it is human thing... the further away from "wars" the generations get in time, the further away they get in everything else.

I am just as guilty as the rest. I really hold little or nothing with the Battle of Alesia or the Battle of Teutoburg Forest...

Curt

[FlatLandFed]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Michael writes, "… But in this day and age having a g-grandfather as a Civil War veteran is pretty rare I believe."

Oh, I dunno. I'm 54 (quit laughing!) and my g-grandmother's three brothers fought for Ohio regiments, my g-grandfather's three brothers were New York men, and we have many plenty cousin Hadleys on the rolls especially from Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont.

My mother remembers family picnics in Indiana where the Poland and Stivrins relatives had grand times -- including at least a few of the relatives from Ohio regiments. I have one of my uncle's GAR badge in practically unused condition as well as a photo of him using it as a watch fob (!).

My 15-year-old son sees WW II -- even Vietnam -- in the same romantic, long-ago time point of view when life when simpler as I did growing up in Michigan and helping our Boy Scout troop escort brass era Buicks and Olds carrying WW ONE and even Span/Am veterans in the 4th of July and Armistice/Veterans Day parades.

Anyway, folks in their 20s today probably are up to gg-grandfathers if not ggg-grandfathers are far as connections to the Civil War.

Hope we can keep the fires of interest burning. The bicentennial's nigh upon us, and folks need to be reminded from whence we've come.
Paul Hadley
Suddenly Feeling Ancient Squad

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Hallo!

"Anyway, folks in their 20s today probably are up to gg-grandfathers..."

Yes, we are. And I have my Chinese passport to prove it. ;) :)

Curt

[PogueMahone]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

Like others, I was influenced by my maternal grandfather who regaled his young grandson with stories of his visits to Shiloh when the veterans would gather for reunions. He told me stories of his grandpa escaping the Shiloh battlefield by swimming the river the river back home to Sugar Tree Creek, Tn. His sister, my great aunt, had a small sofa that was a prized family possession because it was one of the few items saved from the house when the Federals burned it down to clear a field of fire. One leg still had the same chunk of wood repair that a family slave had done to make the sofa useable for the mistress of the house.

A few years ago, preparing for the Immortal 600 event, I happened to pick the name of an officer who came from the area my family is from. I mentioned it to my mother, a genealogist. She immediately said that the man was the grandfather of a friend of her's. She took me over to the lady's house to meet her and find out about her grandfather. I was quite excited about the prospect. But the moment I took her hand to shake it, I realized I was touching someone who had held the hand of the man I was going to portray. I could barely let go. She told me all about her grandfather, but mostly that the war had taken his mind and in his old age he got mean and drank and said things that he shouldn't. Just before leaving, she handed me his copy of the book "The Immortal 600" and told me to take it on the trip with me. His notes were in the margins in his own hand. I took it, handling as if I carried the Holy Grail.

Heady stuff for this old, jaded reenactor.

[NC5thCav]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

I had several gg-grandfathers who fought in western North Carolina regiments. One of my favorite memories growing up was a story my dad told me. His great aunt used to tell him about being in the field hoeing corn with her brothers. She looked up and saw some soldiers coming up the road and started yelling for her brothers to go hide. I asked him which side they were hiding from, and he told me both. The boys were Confederate deserters from the 58th North Carolina that had come home to the mountains to help with the harvest. They would go back to the army in the fall, but until then they were loyal deserters hiding from the home guard and raiding yankees.

[WestTN_reb]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

My cousin Neal (who was 72 when he passed two years ago) told us about his grandfather (last name of Pearson), who was a young boy when the Federal troops marched into Parker's Crossroads, TN. He spoke of the Pearsons owning slaves, and being present when Forrest rode into town in 1862. He also told the story of one of the Pearson's slaves killing a Federal soldier for ransacking the house.

Neal's daughter has a wooden chest in her posession that came from the Pearson house in the late 1800's - early 1900's. It still bears the marks where Federal soldiers pried it open.

We're still trying to determine the exact location of the Pearson property in Parker's Crossroads.

[McKim]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

I was interested in the Civil War at a very young age and was lucky, so was my Granny the history teacher. In the summers after my grandfather died she and I would head south for hands on study, and we had a blast as we were pals.

Anyway, a story she told me has always struck me. At a family get together some of the Civil War vets were talking about a vet from Virginia, when she asked a question the reply was "no darlin, he fought in the Revolution".

So I have talked to someone who talked to someone who fought in the Revolution.

[Daniel]

Re: Civil War Degrees of Separation

I am 54 and grew up at a time when the Civil War was still really a big deal. I think at a very young age I was mystified by this great event and wanted to know more about it. So I became a student of the war. I also had several ancestors in the Confederate Army. I remember my mother saying to me at a young age, "Don't ever forget that your great grandfather surrendered with Lee at Appomattox."

I grew up with in Tennessee knowing my grandfather and his brothers and sisters who were children of George Sinclair who served with Co. D of the 14th TN, Archer's Brigade. Corporal Sinclair had three wives. And he had his last child at the age of 70 and his wife was 41. His last child is still alive. My great aunt is one of the last true daughters of the Confederacy. Also Sinclair named some of his children after the generals in the Army of Northern Virginia. I had an Aunt Lee, Uncle Stonewall, Uncle Gordon and Uncle Archie (His name was James Archie Sinclair). So the war seemed very close to me.

Someone once said to me that a trama in a family may take from three to five generations to work out of a family system. And I think the trama of the war has taken that long to work out of our national family. So the war is not as great of a deal as when I was growing up. I think, and I could be wrong, but our hobby will probably go the way that the Rev War reenacting went. I think the current generation may be trying to figure out and understand the last huge national trama which was World War II.

Dan Stewart