Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

[Dignann]

Some NPS battlefield fees:


Andersonville NHS
No fees

Antietam NB
$4.00 fee for entrance to visitor center

Appomattox NHS
$10.00 per car, or $4.00 per person, to enter park

Brice's Cross Roads NBS
No fees

Chickamauga and Chattanooga NMP
No fees.
$3.00 fee to enter Point Park at Lookout Mountain unit

Fort Donelson NB
No fees

Fort Pulaski NM
$3.00 fee to enter park

Fort Sumter NM
No fee to enter park by private boat
By concessioner's boat. Adults: $15.00; Seniors: $13.50; Kids (6-11): $9.00; Infants (5 and Under): Free

Fredericksburg & Spotsylvania NMP
$2.00 fee to see films

Harpers Ferry NHP
$6.00 per car, or $4.00 per person, to enter park

Kennesaw Mountain NBP
No fees

Manassas NBP
$3.00 fee for entrance to visitor center
$3.00 fee to see film

Monocacy NB
No fees

Petersburg NMP
$5.00 per car, or $3.00 per person, to enter main unit of park

Richmond NBP
No fees

Shiloh NMP
$5.00 per car, or $3.00 per person, to enter park

Stones River NB
No fees

Vicksburg NMP
$8.00 per car, or $4.00 per person, to enter park

Wilson's Creek NB
$10.00 per car, or $5.00 per person, to enter park


Comparatively, $7.50 for access to the museum, film and cyclorama doesn't sound outrageous, or is it the fact that some view it as promises being broken?

Eric

[BishopLynch]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Andy,
I see your where your coming from, trust me, I teach high school. I think my overall pet peave with the place was how it was hyped up so much but in reality, or maybe I should say, in my opinion, the old place was better because it focused on Gettysburg. This charging admission business just upsets me more because, like everything else these days, you pay more and get less.
Anyway I dont want to get the thread off topic and beat a dead horse so Ill drop it.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

As to the politics of some of the exhibits as to the causes of the war, well, that argument has been going on for 147 years, and an internet forum won't be solving that issue.

It goes beyond the discussion of what caused the war...and I agree, no forum or group of scholars will ever agree on the causes as it has been a constant debate since the war ended.

Did you sit for the final film exhibit at the conclusion of the museum portion? A film about how reconstruction ultimately failed...how the country has remained divided...how the entire white population of the country united against the black population under the Klan, and continues to opress our brothers? No doubt that the film had some airs of truth, but was radically pushing something deeper, and would lead one to believe that the men who fought that war (under whatever cause) ultimately failed...after sitting through the film twice (yes twice), I am still at odds with how to write a letter adressing this, I'm still in shock...

Disclaimer: The aforementioned film is not the "pay" film but part of the Museum Exhibits.

Paul B.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Since July 4th 1863 the citizens of Adams County, PA have been trying to make money off of the battlefield and the battles participants. Why should we think that would ever stop?
:wink_smil

[csuniforms]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Well, Everyone, PLEASE, the point here is to digest what is happening and what kind of third party discussion we can have on how to fix it. You can vote on it.
All of the personal feelings stated here and in the past on what has transpired are important for understanding where people are coming from, and should be addressed and acknowledged by all-- but does not solve Gettysburg's problem. IF the museum loses money what comes next?
It is so true that I Tom Arliskas am not in charge of anything that has to do with the Foundation or the operation of the Battlefield. So why should I care if the Museum or the Foundation loses $2 million dollars a year? Because it would be a real disaster for any type of future project on any other Battlefield or Historic place to do the same, build a new museum.

That said, I would suggest to every Living Historian with an interest in Gettysburg to vote for the $7.50 to see the cyclorama and movie-- BUT!!! The museum displays should be free to everyone as well as the park itself.-- If you want to eat a sandwich in the lunchroom or buy some toy soldiers for your children great--.
To force people to pay to see the museums artifacts, which used to be free, gives me a bad feeling.

Tom Arliskas
CSuniforms

[bhutton]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

I visited the new Park Center for the first time last week, I thought, for the average person the layout and exhibits were done well. Walking through we progressed from some of the causes to the 1st shots through early battles and politics to Gettysburg. Walking through the battle day 1 to 3 and aftermath, than the rest of the war years to after the war till present. Again for the average person it was informative and visually geared for modern A/V types.
That said, Gettysburg has more than two millon visitors per year, I don't know what the stats for other Civil War Parks are, but this is where the average person in the east will go. I can see charging a small entrance fee for adults, leaving children under 12 free and keep the movie and Cyclorama discretionary to keep the place operating for those two million.
Shortly after the battle and for many years there were tours , trollies running through the Battlefield , refreshment stands etc. Making a profiit on this is not a new concept but these entrpreneurs also contributed to the early preservation groups .
Another benefit of the new center will be the eventual restoration of parts of Cemetery Ridge and Ziegler's Grove. I think the powers that be need to raise money but charge realistic prices that the average family can afford.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Since this thread is in the sinks, I'll say this.

I don't think it's a bad thing the museum covers the whole war. The American public, in general, needs places where they can learn about the whole war. The majority of visitors don't know much about the Civil War when compared to the A/C crowd.

I have been to GB more times than I can count. I started when I was seven years old. Most visits I ended up in the visitor center looking at artifacts. So did all of the people I was there with. The new visitor center looks too much like Disney without Mickey. The exhibits are lacking impact. In the old Visitor Center you came away with a feeling that something big and important happened at GB. There was a feeling of reverance and awe attached to the exhibits. Sort of a bridge to the past. It may have prompted people to learn more if they were interested but the lazy ones could not care less. Most people will not remember much about the whole war when they leave the present visitor center and what they do remember should not be the GB NPS version that teaches it with the Jesse Jackson jr. seal of approval.

I think the present visitor center dishonors the men of both sides who fought there and commercializes their sacrifice. I will never go back.

[Marc]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

I have always had second thoughts about the Foundation being involved and who was involved in the Foundation and what would happen when the new VC was completed. That being stated, a modest fee (for everything) should be charged say
$5.00 per person, under 12 free with a maximum per family of $20. This way the children can see and learn and does not cost a family larger than 4 over 12 anymore money and should be affordable along with food, gas and motel costs.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

I visited the new Park Center for the first time last week, I thought, for the average person the layout and exhibits were done well. Walking through we progressed from some of the causes to the 1st shots through early battles and politics to Gettysburg. Walking through the battle day 1 to 3 and aftermath, than the rest of the war years to after the war till present. Again for the average person it was informative and visually geared for modern A/V types.
That said, Gettysburg has more than two millon visitors per year, I don't know what the stats for other Civil War Parks are, but this is where the average person in the east will go. I can see charging a small entrance fee for adults, leaving children under 12 free and keep the movie and Cyclorama discretionary to keep the place operating for those two million.
Shortly after the battle and for many years there were tours , trollies running through the Battlefield , refreshment stands etc. Making a profiit on this is not a new concept but these entrpreneurs also contributed to the early preservation groups .
Another benefit of the new center will be the eventual restoration of parts of Cemetery Ridge and Ziegler's Grove. I think the powers that be need to raise money but charge realistic prices that the average family can afford.

It's important to remember that when the Gettysburg National Military Park (GNMP~a National Park, financed by your tax dollars and a Federal Agency) chose to join with the Gettysburg Foundation (a private group)...they surrendered a large portion of their say in how business is done (this is where we come in).

I still fail to see how the closing of the Old Visitors Center, it's parking lot, and the Cyclorama was a smart decision...we plan to "restore" this part of "core" battlefield back to its July 1863 appearance (which it will never be again, since so much has changed on the base landscape)...and have permanantly destroyed another portion of the battlefield (New Museum, Visitor's Center, Cyclorama, RESTAURANT, and Parking Lots (larger than previous parking lots); because somehow this land was scene as less "critical" than the 3rd days fighting (where the previous Visitor's Center overlooked)...and are now talking of charging a fee to observe what was free before, because someone made a bad business decision.

As noted earlier...$8 a head can hit a family of 5 hard in the pocket...not to mention that the people that typically need our museums and National Parks the most are often the ones who have the greatest challenge coming up with the cash for these things. I understand that all organizations (including Federal) have overhead costs...salaries, maintenance...etc., but perhaps by getting united we can drive something that our Nations treasures have needed for a long time; finances & support...beyond being nickled and dimed for the enjoyment of these.

I'm all for the preservation of artifacts and battlefield...but it seems like critical aspects of this process were overlooked, in someone's haste to push their agenda, and make a few bucks...at the expense of our National Park, and the American people.

I urge everyone in this thread to write to the GNMP Sup., their congressmen, and the Gettysburg Foundation; with their concerns over the future of the GNMP, museum...etc.

Paul B.

[KenCallaway]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

I think this an example of what a lot of people are in trouble with around the country. They purchased/built something that they could not really pay for and were looking forward with great expectations that things will work out. Unfortunately, things have not worked out the way they planned.

I thought the museum was ok but not as good as it once was. You could see that they spent a lot of money on the displays but I thought not enough was actually displayed. Hopefully they rotate more of the million items they own into the exhibits.

That said, I don’t think visitors should have to pay for the museum part of the visitor center. If somebody wants to watch a movie, get a Coke, and see the Cyclorama then I think that all is fair game for charging but they should available individually so as visitors can control their trips and not lose money.

Probably the worst thing about my last trip was a conversation with one of the Ranger that mentioned that actual visitation to the battlefield and National Cemetery, and participation on Ranger tours has decreased since the opening of the visitor center. If that’s true you really can only blame the visitors who like their history with A/V and AC.

Ken Callaway

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Hallo!

"Another benefit of the new center will be the eventual restoration of parts of Cemetery Ridge and Ziegler's Grove."

IF that project is dependent upon profits (read as what is left when the VC debt is retired and the private pockets filled- oops, perhaps the wrong order there)...
Who can expect such a restoration?

Curt
Hoping to be wrong Mess

[davidf]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Interesting comment on the number of people who go on ranger tours. I live in Gettysburg because I am a student at the college here, and worked here during the summer. On my days off this summer though, many times I got in uniform, took my knapsack full of reproductions of things soldiers carried, and shared knowledge with the people on the battlefield. I talked to them about my uniform, my equipment, about the battle that took place, and much more. Met a lot of great people in the process. I feel like I benefited a lot of people who didn't have the time to go to the museum or the time/money to get a tour guide or ranger and didn't know much about the place. With the cost to get here (just for me to get from where I was staying during the summer off campus to the battlefield cost me $4 round trip in gas) and with so much battlefield, I can understand why they aren't necessarily going to the visitor center or not getting rangers.
I think though I have to agree with the others on keeping the main exhibit part free. I have visited the free part a few times this year just because it was free, and many locals I think have as well as a result. Every time I go I sit in for a few more of those movies that are in the exhibit (the History channel got a good gig here). I think that if you kept that free, and rotate in enough new exhibits (and announce it too so a lot people know about it), then maybe the museum will keep up. I would be interested in seeing them rotate in new exhibits/artifacts (like one that talked more about weaponry like the old hall of guns in the old museum). I would make a few more visits if that happened. If you knew they were going to change exhibits like that, wouldn't you go back?

[JimKindred]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

I think this an example of what a lot of people are in trouble with around the country. They purchased/built something that they could not really pay for and were looking forward with great expectations that things will work out. Unfortunately, things have not worked out the way they planned.

Exactly! Now they want someone else to pay for their mistake.

[Dignann]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Fee for Gettysburg visitor center museum?

By ERIN JAMES

The Evening Sun [Hanover, Penn.]
August 29, 2008

In what would be a drastic deviation from original plans, the officials who run the Gettysburg National Military Park Museum and Visitor Center are considering a proposal to charge visitors a single admission fee of $7.50.

What officials say is a significant difference between anticipated and actual revenue spurred the proposal.

Park officials had for years insisted upon opening an exhibit gallery at the museum at no cost to visitors. In its own General Management Plan, the park specifically states that, "The museum, like the visitor center, would be free to all visitors ...."

And since the center's opening in April, visitors have been able to walk through the museum's exhibit gallery free of charge.

But on Thursday, the park's superintendent said the 22-minute film that costs $8 for an adult ticket isn't pulling its weight in revenue. Officials said they expect the disappointing trend to continue when the Cyclorama opens at the end of September.

Ticket sales for "A New Birth of Freedom" have fallen far short of projections, and a change of course is needed to keep the facility financially afloat. With the current fee structure, officials said they expect to lose $1.78 million annually. During the first four months of operation, the percentage of visitors choosing to view the film has ranged from 18 to 24 percent.

Financial projections had been based on an anticipated rate of 33 percent.

"If we ran a full fiscal year with the returns we're getting now, we'd be in big trouble," said Park Superintendent John Latschar.

According to the proposal, visitors would be charged a single fee to see museum galleries, the film and the Cyclorama - a newly restored 125-year-old painting that depicts the Battle of Gettysburg.

The Cyclorama exhibit is scheduled to open Sept. 26, at which time ticket prices are supposed to increase to $12 for visitors who want to view both the film and the painting.

That fee structure would be done away with if the proposal goes through.

Officials say the shift to a single-admission fee would accomplish three objectives - increase the percentage of visitors willing to pay a fee and thus improve the foundation's ability to meet its financial goals, create a higher value for park visitors by making the theater and Cyclorama experience more affordable, and allow visitors multiple opportunities to see all three venues.

The admission fee would cover the cost of operating and maintaining the facility, officials said.

On Thursday, the park and its nonprofit partner The Gettysburg Foundation released the six-page proposal. A 30-day comment period for the park to collect feedback from the public begins today, and a public meeting is scheduled for Thursday, Sept. 18.

Latschar said the center's current fee structure is based on economic feasibility studies conducted by outside consultants, who had recommended the foundation charge $15 for a combined ticket to the film and Cyclorama.

"We thought that was too high," Latschar said.

Officials settled on $12 instead. But even that decrease hasn't enticed enough visitors.

"We are just not meeting the goals in there that all the consultants told us we should target," he said.

That's not because people aren't visiting the museum, however.

In fact, officials said visitor rates are higher than projected. Almost one million people have walked through the visitor center doors so far this year, they said.

The problem is the film's ticket price, which most people scoff at, Latschar said.

Typical visitor comments are questions like, "Eight dollars for a 22-minute film?" he said.

Gettysburg Foundation President Robert Wilburn said he expects the trend to continue when the Cyclorama opens in September. The idea behind the proposal is to correct the problems before the facility loses more money, he said.

"We can see now what the patterns are," Wilburn said.

The Gettysburg Foundation is the park's private partner charged with operating and maintaining the new visitor center.

To operate the facility, the foundation depends upon three primary sources of revenue - museum store commissions, food-service commissions and ticket sales for the film and Cyclorama.

The foundation's 2008 operating budget included revenue projections from the three sources. Officials expected to make $1.92 million through the museum store, $422,260 through the Refreshment Saloon and $4.8 million through the film and Cyclorama.

To date, the store is performing slightly ahead of projections, while the saloon is operating slightly below, officials said.

Latschar said the park and foundation experimented with "all kinds of alternatives" before developing the single-admission fee proposal.

One example was a one-week trial of requiring visitors to obtain a free "ticket" before entering the museum exhibits. That gave workers an opportunity to pitch the film to visitors, but it was "almost to the point of harassing visitors," Latschar said.

Package deals were another experiment, he said.

"Nothing was working," Latschar said.

The superintendent said it's possible the public-comment period could produce other ideas that influence the final decision.

"Somebody out there might think of something we hadn't thought of," Latschar said.

A decision would come no earlier than Sept. 30. Latschar said the Park Service holds the final decision-making power.

If the proposal is accepted, visitors would not be charged to enter other parts of the visitor center. The Refreshment Saloon, souvenir shop, lobbies, resource room and classrooms would still be available free of charge.

There is no charge to enter the battlefield - something increasingly unusual at national parks, Latschar said.

"More parks charge fees than don't," he said.

Season passes for repeat visitors have also been added to the proposal. Individuals could pay $32, and families would be charged $63.

Latschar said it's difficult to know for sure, but he expects the struggling economy is affecting the way Gettysburg visitors are spending their money.

"We think the economy definitely has some impact," he said.

Proposed Fees:

Officials are proposing a single-admission fee that would cover the cost of seeing museum exhibits, a 22-minute film and the newly restored Cyclorama painting at the Gettysburg National Military Park Museum and Visitor Center. The breakdown is as follows:

Adult (ages 13+): $7.50

Adult group (16+ visitors): $6.50 each

Youth (ages 6-12): $5.50

Youth group (16+ visitors): $5

HOW TO COMMENT:

Interested members of the public may comment in writing to Park Superintendent John Latschar, Gettysburg National Military Park, 1195 Baltimore Pike, Suite 100, Gettysburg, PA, 17325. Or they may e-mail comments to GETT_Superintendent@nps.gov. All comments must be received by Sept. 29.

IF YOU GO:

WHAT: Public meeting to discuss the proposed fee structure for entry to the Gettysburg National Military Park Museum and Visitor Center

WHERE: At the museum, 1195 Baltimore Pike, Gettysburg

WHEN: Thursday, Sept. 18, at 7 p.m.

http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_10334800

Eric

[JimKindred]

Re: Gettysburg NMP Museum: Entrance Fee

Most business people would have figured out that the public sees the film as not worth watching and pulled it. Unfortunately the NPS now realizes that they based their revenue generator on something folks are not interested in and their original business plan has gone to crap. So much for study groups.