Farrier or Black Smith Impression

[LindaTrent]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

Marc wrote:

A few years back at Harpers Ferry the fellow who was explaining the role of the black-smith in the community, was asked by me about making horseshoes etc. I was told that was a Farrier's job and he was a blacksmith which is held in higher regard.

Hi Marc,

The following two definitions are from my 1853 Webster's dictionary.

Farrier: A shoer of horses, a smith who shoes horses. One who professes to cure the diseases of horses.

Blacksmith: a smith who works in iron, and makes iron utensils; more properly, an iron-smith.

However, many towns didn't have farriers, and blacksmiths would shoe horses. A blacksmith who shoed horses, would do "farriery" work, but would not consider himself a farrier unless he also dealt with curing cattle and horses. While a person who studied and knew the diseases of horses, shoed horses and worked in iron would consider himself a farrier even though he might also be a blacksmith. A blacksmith who didn't shoe horses would merely be a worker of iron. Did that make sense?

A quick search through Google books of "blacksmith shoe horses" (without the quotes)between 1850-1865 will result in a large number of hits. Such as the following from an article entitled "Horse Shoeing," in the Wisconsin Farmer, 1856.:

It is a lamentable fact, that not one man in a hundred knows when his horse is well shod. Commonly a man leads his horse to the blacksmith shop, lets the work be done, and then goes off with his horse, satisfied, because he has shoes on his feet.

Liz wrote:

I think I'm just confused, but I don't understand the above bit. By the mid-century, there's been a dramatic increase in industrialization in the US, so while many, many things are still individually made for personal use, there are also huge increases of manufactured items

Hi Liz,

Horseshoes were being mass produced at least as early as the 1840s. Take for example the following from The Mechanics' Magazine, 1844

...horse-shoes, furnishes a similar proof of the bearing of the progress of inventions. An improved kind of horse-shoes made at Troy, New York, for some time past, is now sold at the price of only five cents per pound, ready prepared to be used in shoeing the animal. At a factory recently erected, 50 tons of these are now turned out per day...

Russell and Erwin Hardware Company Catalog, 1865 Collinsville, CT, sold horse-shoes and mule-shoes on page 43. There are Government pattern -- fore and hind; city pattern --fore and hind, Southern pattern, and Light Mule pattern shoes all being sold by the pound.

Of course they also sell blacksmiths' and machinists' tools, including such items as horse-shoe pincers, tongs, anvils, vises, bellows, "portable forge and bellows," mechanics' tool chests, etc.

That's what I mean--a farrier might take a blank horseshoe and fit it, but where did he get the blank to start with? How much were they? How were they shipped? Did they come in different sized blanks? These are all questions my 9yo will come up with, viewing a farrier's impression

A farrier would probably purchase shoes from a wholesaler, or if necessary he could make them himself. I haven't actually looked up the price of horse-shoes and the Russell and Erwin catalog doesn't give a price, but it looks like they were sold either individually or by the pound. I say that based upon the fact that under each horseshoe it says "price" and "price per pound," but the price is not listed. They could be apparently shipped by the box, and how they actually traveled would, I assume, depend upon where they were being shipped out of, and where they were being shipped to. For example, there was no railroad to Gallipolis, Ohio, but the community sat right on the Ohio River (well, since I'm dealing with a 9 year old, let me clarify that not on the River, but on the banks of the River.) :D And finally, yes, they came in various sizes number 0 -5 each number having a specified weight, though city pattern shoes were size 0-6.

Which companies? Where were they located? How much were raw metals, and how were they shipped/provided? Were there scrap yards to visit? How would a busy metalworker find time to scavenge salvage metals? Where did they gets the molds or dies?

Wow! You're 9 year old is inquisitive isn't he? :sarcastic There were a lot of wholesalers of iron in the US. What companies, where were they located, etc. would depend again upon what's being portrayed and where one is pretending to be. While the occupation may appear to have been a "dead-end" the research is eternal, fun, and truly informative. Great topic!

Linda Trent

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

Actually, yes, he is--didn't talk til he was nearly three, and hasn't stopped since. It's GOBS of fun going places with him, because I don't know the answers to about 3/4 of what he comes up with, if not more! Luckily, he's very happy to ask questions of strangers. :)

[Marc]

Old Horseshoes

The discussion reminds me of the hardware store my father managed. It was one of the old time ones with the tin ceiling etc etc...anyways in the basement where the glass was cut and for storage were about 200+ old horseshoes from an age gone by. Anyways, a hollywood movie company was doing a movie in the East and advertised for period horseshoes. My father responded and sold all the horseshoes in one sale. I don't know if they were correct for the movie they were producing, but talk about selling old inventory.

[rbrewer]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

Recently I borrowed a copy of "American Military Equipage 1851-1872 by Frederick P. Todd" thru my local interlibrary loan system. I was looking for info on something unrelated, but noticed that there was a section on cavalry with a very detailed sketch of a farriers equiptment. I know Mr. Todd's book was held in high regards some years ago, but I dont know well it holds up to more modern information. Hope this helps.
Sincerely
Bob Brewer
Gaithersburg,MD

[UnicornForge]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

Actually, the equipment, hand tools, boxes to carry the tools in, forges, number of horse shoes, amount of coal, and lots and lots of other information is available in the Ordnance Manuals, and the drawings done by Captain Albert Mordecai. The governments (both north and south) were very specific about the equipment and supplies to be used by smiths and farriers employed by the armies. I have only seen one period picture of a forge where the forge was not within government specifications, and that forge was built for use as part of Confederate fortifications, not a mobile army.

..... So i could bring out my old coal forge and antique farrier equipment and do demonstrations. What do you all think. would that be something of interest?
Brad Beers

The Ordnance Manual For The Use Of The Officers Of The United States Army, 2nd Edition

Author: United States. Army Ordnance Department, Mordecai, Alfred, editor 1804-1887.
Originally Published: Washington: Gideon & co., printers, 1850.

Reprinted by Scholarly Publishing Office, University of Michigan Library (December 22, 2005)
Paperback: 538 pages, published as a facsimile
ISBN-10: 1425559719
ISBN-13: 978-1425559717
Book is available through:
- Amazon.com
- The Univ. of Michigan Library web site in printed and in electronic form.

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=AGY4347

This manual was updated in The Ordnance Manual For Use Of The Officers Of The Confederate States Army, 1863 Edition which includes updates to equipment that occurred between 1850 and American War Between the States (Civil War).

So far I have written about 120 pages of what I expect to be a 300 page book that I am writing on the subject.
If you contact me privately, I would be happy to provide just about whatever information you are likely to need for an authentic presentation.

I even placed some information on Wikipedia, as well as a photograph of the Traveling Forge that I am building. The 57" cannon wheels are the tricky part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_Forge

[UnicornForge]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

The following two definitions are from my 1853 Webster's dictionary.
Linda Trent

Defining the term blacksmith is difficult because it changed both over time and as the result of the situation and location. Industrial type advancements by the 1850s (see The Ordnance Manual For The Use Of The Officers Of The United States Army, 2nd Edition and The Ordnance Manual For Use Of The Officers Of The Confederate States Army, 1863 Edition) required that smiths carry a specific number of pounds of pre-made horse-shoes, as well as bar stock, etc. By the 1860s the Federal government was providing different types of smiths, artisan smiths, farriers, and general smiths. Artisan smiths were skilled in the repair of carriages including cannon carriages, farriers specialized in shoeing horses and mules, and general smiths did a bit of everything. The list and packing information for Battery Wagons, Traveling Forges, and portable Mountain Forges indicate that smiths for the most part were equipped to repair just about anything made from iron, leather, and/or wood. The smith was also responsible for having spare keys for the Army's locks.

However, many towns didn't have farriers, and blacksmiths would shoe horses. A blacksmith who shoed horses, would do "farriery" work, but would not consider himself a farrier unless he also dealt with curing cattle and horses. While a person who studied and knew the diseases of horses, shoed horses and worked in iron would consider himself a farrier even though he might also be a blacksmith. A blacksmith who didn't shoe horses would merely be a worker of iron. Did that make sense? Linda Trent

As I described above, over time the roles of blacksmithing evolved, and with the approach of the WBTS more and more smiths were specializing, and more and more smiths were working in factories. A smith who worked in a large carriage shop was unlikely to have the opportunity to shoe a horse. A smith that worked in a shop that specialized in hardware would likely have no exposure to either carriages or horse-shoes. I had the opportunity to talk to the owner of a blacksmith shop in Baltimore MD shortly before it closed, and he described the role of his ancestors and the shop during the WBTS and equipment/hardware that they made for the Federal forces.

Some smiths evolved as the understanding of horse anatomy and horse medical needs evolved, specializing in horses and eventually evolving into our modern day farriers.

To understand the roles and functions of smiths during the WBTS we need to focus on their equipment and roles during the conflict. Definitions of what a blacksmith or farrier at other periods in history will be unique to that period of history and the technology that existed at that time.

In general a blacksmith is defined by today's blacksmithing community as someone who works with black/iron metal by manipulating/forging it while the iron is hot. A modern "artist-blacksmith" is someone who focuses his/her attention on the artistic side of hot-forging, but includes those that hot-forge artistic knives, tools, historical stuff and other items.

For the purpose of clarity we refer to smiths who have special training with horses as farriers. There will be an extensive display of extremely high-end (extremely well trained certified) farriers *again* at the yearly spring event of the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland this year. They are part of the family of smiths, and some do artistic and/or historic forging as a hobby.

To make a long story short, what a smith is and what he/she does depends on the period of history one is referring to, the technology available, the training of the smith, and the specialization area that a smith may or may not partake in.

And by the way, in the 1860s the upper-echelons of society did not socialize outside of their social circle, and blacksmiths were not considered part of upper-society. But I refrain from entering this taboo topic area.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

And by the way, in the 1860s the upper-echelons of society did not socialize outside of their social circle, and blacksmiths were not considered part of upper-society. But I refrain from entering this taboo topic area.

Don't really get the "taboo" part, but...

I totally agree that on an absolute basis, no mechanic would come anywhere close to being accepted in the upper echelons, "Where the Cabots speak only to the Lodges, And the Lodges speak only to God." At best there was the patronizing view of blacksmiths like in "The Village Smithy," where they were perceived as lowly, simple, noble laborers, but certainly not who you'd want at the dinner table.

But on a relative basis, the upper echelons of society in a little isolated semi-frontier village would be far different than the upper echelons of Boston or New York, and there I really do think a blacksmith, a mill owner, a storekeeper, and similar occupations would still be the anchors that held the local "upper echelons" of society together, with the day laborers, well diggers, market hunters, rail splitters and such below them.

Picked at random: New Hartford, Illinois. "It was founded by Isaac Hoskins, Abner Clark, John Shinn and Nathan Brown. The latter kept the first store, and Mr. Rathburn was the first blacksmith. The first postmaster was Wm. Grimes. It now has two stores, two cooper shops, a blacksmith shop, a school-house, and two churches. There is one resident physician. The place contains now about 100 inhabitants."

I'd be willing to bet that that blacksmith got invited to all the best balls and social gatherings in New Hartford. :D And the same in hundreds of similar little crossroads. No, it wouldn't be a ticket to the best balls in Springfield, but on a daily basis he'd be most aware of his position within his own community, and I expect he'd be as high as anyone there.

And then you have "blacksmiths" like A. Wilson that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, who had expanded well beyond standing over a forge all day, and were primarily businessmen in the community rather than mechanics, with mechanics as their employees. Again, nowhere near the absolute upper echelons, but relatively above even the blacksmiths they employed.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[UnicornForge]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

I prefer not to speculate what may have happened, somewhere I have never been, and know nothing about. I will accept your premise that semi-frontier villages had fancy balls and social gatherings where blacksmiths had fancy duds to wear when invited to such parties, as that is not my area of specialization.

However I am completely confused. Did semi-frontier social practices have a lot to do with the social practices in an army camp.

As for "taboo part", I am even more confused. Isn't talking about actual social practices in and around an army camp (and camp followers) during the WBTS off-limits? Aren't we instead reenacting that army camp followers regularly included women of middle and upper society?

Don't really get the "taboo" part, but... .......
I'd be willing to bet that that blacksmith got invited to all the best balls and social gatherings in New Hartford. :D And the same in hundreds of similar little crossroads. No, it wouldn't be a ticket to the best balls in Springfield, but on a daily basis he'd be most aware of his position within his own community, and I expect he'd be as high as anyone there. Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Hank Trent]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

I will accept your premise that semi-frontier villages had fancy balls and social gatherings where blacksmiths had fancy duds to wear when invited to such parties, as that is not my area of specialization.

Note the smiley! Though I would expect an influential small-town blacksmith to own a top hat and black frock coat for church and other occasions, I was joking about the "best balls." Obviously small town entertainment didn't compare to high society, but within a small town there was still a heirarchy, and human nature being what it is, I expect that it was important to the residents, as foolish as it might seem on a larger scale. Plenty of period short stories deal with the social and political maneuverings of folks in their own little small town sphere.

However I am completely confused. Did semi-frontier social practices have a lot to do with the social practices in an army camp.

They sure did. Where do you think a lot of soldiers came from? They knew what life was like in their own small towns, how they stood in relationship to others from their same town, and the context of the news they got from home about who was doing what. The officers they voted for might be the same men they voted for township trustee back home.

What I don't get, is that in the formation of small towns all over the west (modern midwest), I thought it was fairly common for blacksmiths, mill owners, store keepers and similar occupations to be the first influential people, not only because those were such necessary occupations, but because they created a natural gathering place, where men came to transact business and hung around waiting and discussed things. So the blacksmith, miller, storekeeper etc. were in a position to get the news, influence opinions, be well known, and as the town grew, they had a head start to be in the economic, social and political center. Not that it happened exactly that way in every small town, but that was a typical pattern, which gave a blacksmith the potential to expand into other businesses, be a farm machinery agent, be elected to a local office, and so forth. By the Civil War, a western/midwestern town might still be in its first generation, or be working on its second or third, but for somebody in their 40s in the 1860s who grew up in such a place, the memories of the first generation and a town's founding would still be strong.

Is that totally wrong? Am I way off base?

As for "taboo part", I am even more confused. Isn't talking about actual social practices in and around an army camp (and camp followers) during the WBTS off-limits? Aren't we instead reenacting that army camp followers regularly included women of middle and upper society?

I have no clue what you're talking about. The sarcasm makes it hard to follow. Are you saying that all you see at events are the usual mainstream women portraying overdressed civilians living in wall tents, and you think that's all civilian reenacting really is? If so, you really do need to get out more. :D

The last time I interacted with a blacksmith at a reenactment (in Georgia last fall), I spent the morning at my job as a gardener trimming the garden of a cotton broker's home to get ready for the mustering-in speeches, and needed my shears sharpened, so I walked across town to the blacksmith shop and brick forge, used ten cents of the dollar I'd earned that day to have him sharpen and oil them, visited around town for a while at the store and other shops, and picked them up an hour or two later.

In that deep south community, cotton was king, so the cotton brokers and plantation owners were socially at the top, with the mechanics and merchants next, and the common white laborers like myself at the bottom, just above the slaves (well, we thought we were above the slaves; not sure what the house slaves thought). So to me, this kind of discussion about small-town life seems not only fascinating but immediately relevant to reenacting.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[UnicornForge]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am trying with with all possible efforts to avoid offending anyone!

I have no clue what you're talking about. The sarcasm makes it hard to follow. Are you saying that all you see at events are the usual mainstream women portraying overdressed civilians living in wall tents, and you think that's all civilian reenacting really is? If so, you really do need to get out more. :D Hank Trent hanktrent@voyager.net

OK, then lets be clear as I know how to make it. What I am saying is that decent women did not even walk through military camps unescorted. Soldiers did not want their wives to be exposed to the behavior, language, and foul environment of army camps of those times. Camp followers, and unescorted women in military camps, were commonly prostitutes!

I have helped out in the Historic Forge, over the past 20 or more years, at a local farm museum. Various craftspeople do living history there. I can attest that people did not hang-out at the blacksmith shop, as they had their occupations to perform. Read "The Wheelwright's Shop" by George Sturt/George Bourne. People worked very very long days, then went home. Class distinctions were dominant in that time period. Men might hang out by the stove at the country store, if and when they had time, but not the blacksmith shop because they did not want to go home to their wife covered in soot. Historical blacksmithing has been my hobby for over 35 years, and is perhaps one of the few topics I am knowledgeable in.

Actually I don't reenact, I am a craftsman doing living history. Both at the museum and "reenactments". I clean up my language, behavior, and presentation so as not to offend modern spectators. What I make at the museum tends to be limited to the allowed 10 minute projects, and limited to what I can make, safely without forge-welding, near visitors. What visitors get is the sanitized politically correct version. If I was to "reenact" the attitudes, language, and behavior of that time period, I would have been tossed out of the museum, and/or been beaten up years ago.

My primary goal on this forum is to learn what I can. My secondary goal is to try to avoid getting tossed off the forum for expressing bewilderment about what participants express about what they believe were the conduct, ethics, behavior and prejudices of that time period.

"How about a collar for your servant madam?" That would be good for being beaten up when asked of an interracial couple.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am trying with with all possible efforts to avoid offending anyone!

My apologies then!

Isn't talking about actual social practices in and around an army camp (and camp followers) during the WBTS off-limits? Aren't we instead reenacting that army camp followers regularly included women of middle and upper society?

In all sincerity, it's not off limits here nor at most events that I'm aware of, and the events usually discussed on this forum aren't reenacting that, so I assumed it was sarcasm. My bad.

What I am saying is that decent women did not even walk through military camps unescorted. Soldiers did not want their wives to be exposed to the behavior, language, and foul environment of army camps of those times. Camp followers, and unescorted women in military camps, were commonly prostitutes!

We're in agreement there!

I can attest that people did not hang-out at the blacksmith shop, as they had their occupations to perform.

I really don't think I'm wrong that a typical 19th century person would be familiar with the cliche that people hung out and talked/gossiped at a small-town blacksmith shop. The following sources are all pre-1865, and there's lots more out there.

"In the country especially, the tavern, the blacksmith shop and the store, are too often made the lounging places of the idler, the tippler, and the loud-mouthed politician..." Source

"Cherry-tree mill--nobody had seen a stray horse. Cherry-tree tavern--the horse was not standing at the barn asking for oats, like the sensible horse I had given him credit for being. Nobody had seen him at the tavern. Cherry-tree blacksmith-shop--two teams, a broken wagon mending, a horse or two waiting, village loafers hanging round. Nobody had seen a stray horse!" Source.

"A visit to the blacksmith's shop in any country always repays one, and there the gossip is usually heard. In Africa it seems to be the same, and idlers always lounged about the Unyoro blacksmith's." Source.

It shows up again and again, both in the U.S. and England. Do you have some period examples to show the opposite?

People who worked with their hands, including blacksmiths, were not to socialize with or even talk to decent women.

How are you defining "decent women"? It's just too hard to generalize, nationwide. I can't picture a small town preacher's wife (surely a decent woman by her own definition and by her reputation in town) snubbing everyone who worked with his hands, because other than the doctor and the school-teacher and the storekeeper, people who worked with their hands are all she might have to interact with for several miles around, and besides, the blacksmith and other mechanics might be relatives.

In a more upper-class environment, well, of course. But that doesn't translate to every situation, everywhere.

"How about a collar for your servant madam?" That would be good for being beaten up when asked of an interracial couple.

Aside from the interpretive issues, seeing the situation through 19th century eyes, if the negro is apparently well dressed and accompanying his mistress on a visit or errand, he's probably trusted enough to drive her, carry her purchases, etc. I'd think it would be odd in the 1860s to try to sell her a collar for him, as if he was a common field-hand caught running away. The largest market would be large plantation owners with a discipline problem or traders with coffles to move, and it would make more sense to approach them.

My primary goal on this forum is to learn what I can. My secondary goal is to try to avoid getting tossed off the forum for expressing bewilderment about what participants express about what they believe were the conduct, ethics, behavior and prejudices of that time period.

Same here. :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[LindaTrent]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

Men might hang out by the stove at the country store, if and when they had time, but not the blacksmith shop because they did not want to go home to their wife covered in soot.

I've spent over an hour on numerous occasions at historic villages loitering around the blacksmith shop. Talking to the smithy about what he's currently working on, looking at numerous things hanging on his walls, the architecture, and that sort of thing, we usually get into some long interesting conversations. Oftentimes I step back while other visitors come and go and then return to our discussion. I don't recall ever walking out of the museum with soot on me.

Linda.

[rbruno]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

I am coming into this discussion late but would like to add the simple idea that I think it would be great to see an authentic blacksmith at an event. As Tom said earlier, this is sorely missing from our cav camps and farriers/blacksmiths would have been all over these camps as well as infantry. I would love to see someone repairing/making items for the army at an event instead of someone just twisting a peice of square stock for a holder for a lamp to hang from some privates wall tent at a mainstream event. Anyway, I would really like to see this impression.

[fahnenschmied]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

If not they found scrap and heated it up and made what was needed, or melted and poured into a mold or a die. Like i stated earlier, alot of anvils that were used were made from a simple chunk/slab of rail road track. I also have seen men take rail road spikes, or a wood spade/wedge and make it into a hardee hole chisel.


Brad

Firstly, I would like to see what sort of setup enables you to melt and pour scrap iron. I am a smith by profession, and I've burnt alot of iron and steel, but only melted some cast iron, and that was by accident.

Secondly, a chunk of railroad "track" from the time will make a spectacularly sorry anvil. Rails at that time were almost exclusively of iron, I don't think any was made of steel until 1865-66. And there was much rail that wasn't the familiar I beam type of today. The rail was much lighter and smaller than the heavy stuff used on mainlines nowadays.
I have some prewar rail. It is a strap of iron, 2" x .5", with a countersunk hole every 24". It was held with either common nails or screws. It faced the top of a wooden rail, that was probably a 2" x 4" timber. This particular stuff had been sent to Wilmington to be used for armouring an ironclad that was never completed. "Spikes" then were just common iron, much smaller in length and section, @ 5" x 1/2" and useless for amking cutting tools. So the common railroad spikes of nowadays are totally wrong, in both material and size. Some rail wasn't flat strap or I-beam but sort of a "hat section". There was no real standardization yet then of rail, track width, coupler heights, coupler types, etc. All that was still years in the future.

Lastly, a field farrier would be a fantastic impression to see - so long as one actually did have a proper, documentable field forge of a type actually used here, and not a hundered year old rivet forge with a non period type of "farriers anvils" will all sorts of strange doo-dads cast onto it. I have seen a quite nice traveling forge at a local event at Fort Branch here in NC. There are probably others around too. Might be best to team up with others who have researched, built and collected the stuff, you can swap notes and learn from each other.

Dave Stone

(Whose only field forge is a WWI -WWII German Army one, that has repaired bicycles, bayonet scabbards, truck bumpers, headlight bars, and motorcycle sidecars, heel irons, but not - yet - horsedrawn stuff)

[UnicornForge]

Re: Farrier or Black Smith Impression

What Mr. fahnenschmied said makes a great deal of sense.