Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

[Vicksburg Dave]

I have an original and want to make copies. Any of you have any experience with this?

Thanks,

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Well, I only know of Blockade Runner as a vendor offering hard ruber buttons probably made in India. Perhaps you should ask them. Just a suggestion!

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Jan,

Just an FYI, the bloackade runner buttons are plastic, not hard rubber.

David, I will mention to Brian White that you are curious about this subject, he spent many years trying to get authentic USSS buttons reproduced and if I remember correctly it ended up being a very costly venture, but he will be better able to let you know the pitfalls so I will see if I can get him to post over here.


Best,

Dan

[Marc]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Jan,

Just an FYI, the bloackade runner buttons are plastic, not hard rubber.

David, I will mention to Brian White that you are curious about this subject, he spent many years trying to get authentic USSS buttons reproduced and if I remember correctly it ended up being a very costly venture, but he will be better able to let you know the pitfalls so I will see if I can get him to post over here.


Best,

Dan

Dan is correct I remember when Brian was trying to reproduce the USSS buttons. One final problem even if you can develope a good process and the buttons are good is the law of supply and demand. The overall costs may be just to much.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Hallo!

Do you mean reproducing the "Goodyear" buttons as true gutta percha/hard rubber or reproducing them in something other but that looks like period gutta percha/hard rubber?

We have had limited success with two routes in reproducing a Period looking button (along the lines of using modern aniline blue dye versus Period indigo dye for Federal uniforms kind of thing..).

In brief and to over generalize...

The first was using products sold by Bare Metal Foil Company used by fine scale and master miniature modelers for casting small parts. The process consists of making molds with "Experts-Choice" liquid mold putty (a 2 part material). This room temperature curing material makes molds so fine that they will capture finger prints on items.
The second part is cannibalizing brass button "eyes." (Some lads use brass or steel screw eyes but they often pull out in use.)
The third part of the process is using high end polymer acrylic two part resin, tinted black with powdered dye, in the the mold -suspending the eye.

This makes a decent button but it lacks the back side detail.

A second method is to use the stove oven curing plasticized modeling clay "Sculpey" (which is available in black) to made to the two halves (front and back side) of a mold and then bake it hard. The two part mold is then used to mold the soft "squeezable" Sculpey. (This gets complicated by the eye on the original button).
The button is then baked to harden it, and a screw eye drilled and epoxied in place so as not to pull out.

There are various other "room temperature 'vulcanizing'" type silicon type mold-making products out there, as well as casting resins.
IMHO, the hard part is making a casting of BOTH sides of the buttons without destroying an expensive original button due to the complication of the eye.

We did two things. One, we used a "Waterbury" brass "US shield eagle" or
"US 'I' eagle'" button and went "farb" in not having the Goodyear backing (which is not visible when the buttons are on a coat).
Or, two, we ignored the Goodyear buttons as a more "private purchase" not always, not standard, not universal Berdan issuance and went with brass.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[MissMaggie]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

I also once made an attempt at reproducing the buttons. Much like everyone else I found that getting the fronts and backs to work out just wasn't working with the process I was using. I may experiment more in the future once I'm done with school but, I honestly don't see all the fuss being worth it unless I can actually make them out of real hard rubber or gutta percha. Its just too time consuming and hit or miss for a so-so reproduction.

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Thanks for the info. I snagged an authentic Navy button on Ebay like the Blockade Runner makes, but wanted to make a repro out of something a little more authentic than black plastic.

Thanks,

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Jan,

Just an FYI, the bloackade runner buttons are plastic, not hard rubber.

David, I will mention to Brian White that you are curious about this subject, he spent many years trying to get authentic USSS buttons reproduced and if I remember correctly it ended up being a very costly venture, but he will be better able to let you know the pitfalls so I will see if I can get him to post over here.


Best,

Dan

I too would be interested in what a very costly venture means...I have a few button projects of my own, I'd like to pursure, but so far have hit snare after snare...costs not yet being one of them.

Paul B.

[Charles Heath]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Dave,

Not to point out the obvious, but I've always had good luck buying hard rubber buttons in sets of six, eight or more from Zaharias. He isn't an approved AC vendor, but like Bill MacIntosh, he sells a heck of a lot of nice, small, original items for a reasonable price, and travels to a surprising number of events.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Dave,

To add to what Charles said, the USN Goodyear buttons are fairly easy to find in my experience. Unless you're talking about needing several hundred, the better route might be to simply hunt down originals. Huge lots of Goodyear buttons routinely sell for just a few dollars on eBay. Again, I don't know how many you are looking for but in terms of durability and authenticity you certainly can't beat the originals.


Best,

Dan

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

I've seen a lot of modern era rubber Navy buttons on Ebay, but only one like those salvaged off of the Cairo.

[J.H.Berger]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Jan,

Just an FYI, the bloackade runner buttons are plastic, not hard rubber.

David, I will mention to Brian White that you are curious about this subject, he spent many years trying to get authentic USSS buttons reproduced and if I remember correctly it ended up being a very costly venture, but he will be better able to let you know the pitfalls so I will see if I can get him to post over here.


Best,

Dan

Thanks Dan! I have not tried to burn or melt them!
Jan

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

Hallo!

Aber...

Melting and burning plastic make those neat little black soot worms that float in the rising smoke... ;) :)

Beyond the "gutta percha" discussion:

IMHO, the problem with "plastic" is that it has an "un-gutta percha" like shine to it like fresh coal.
Granted, one can "kill the shine" with steel wool and oil, but the wheels on the bus go round to what "looks like" Goodyear "hard rubber" but isn't. For example, there are/were "Berdan butttons" that cam eout that were darkened brass (anodized) on the front but bright on the backs (the backs could be painted with sooty black modeling paint).

But in the end- as with lads painting brass U.S. "eagle" buttons gloss or flat black (only to have the detail pop out when the paint wore off the raised portions)... there is Goodyear "hard rubber" and a sliding scale of what is not.

;) :)

Curt

[Vicksburg Dave]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-PRE-CIVIL-WAR-1851-MILITARY-U-S-NAVY-BUTTON_W0QQitemZ360106713299QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item360106713299&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Reproducing Goodyear Hard Rubber Buttons

I guess it's time for me to chime in. Firstly, I was so tired of trying to have my own "hard rubber" buttons reproduced (USSS eagles) that I gave up the ghost almost five years ago. This was a project I first undertook when I was about 17 years old and never had the results I felt were good enough for what I needed. Then again, authentic USSS uniform coat cloth was always impossible to find, and there were no events to go to anyway so....yeah. Anyway.

Once upon a time I took an original hard rubber button to a professional rubber and plastics company in Cincinnati to have tested. The "durometer" or "hardness" of the original was as the owner of the company termed it, "about that of a bowling ball." His company and several others claiming to deal in vulcanized natural rubbers absolutely could not help me replicate the hardness, density, and detail of original rubber buttons.

Years later I had purchased a set of cast black RESIN eagle buttons from Peter Chapman of New Hampshire (a USSS reenactor and historian) to see what they looked like. The detail in the button was remarkable but the backmark was missing and the eye was steel wire instead of brass. I contacted Pete to see what I could do about this and he offered to loan me his original coat-sized USSS eagle button so I could have professionals mold and cast a sample. The same went for my original cuff buttons, and within a few months the model makers I had sent the buttons to shipped absolutely perfect replicas of the USSS buttons to me.....sans backmarks.

The rubber they used was indeed natural vulcanized rubber; heat-molded with sulfuric gasses I think. The color and dull shine was there (exactly like coal, as Curt put it) but the hardness was severely lacking. I could nick the button with my fingernail. After some back-and-forth with the company who provided the two reproduction rubber buttons they agreed to replicate the face, backmark, and even the brass shank of the USSS butons. The only downside to this was the cost; for coat sized buttons they wanted $8.75 a piece and for cuff buttons they asked $5.50. They were also going to be made from a high-durometer black resin.

Why so serious about rubber USSS eagle buttons, you ask? Why did I not use rubber versions of original brass buttons? I was after exact replicas for two reasons; the eagle design is unlike that of any other CW era button and the size and shape of the USSS rubber eagle buttons is wholly unique. They're highly domed if not almost completely ball shaped.

Blockade Runner's reproduction USSS buttons got me excited for a while until I saw that they were simply plastic. They do not have the feel, look, or heft of the originals. And while some complain that their USSS buttons are made for officers only (with an "I" in the shield) do not be fooled if you want to buy their buttons....there's an original sharpshooter frock in private hands that bears arsenal-original "I" shield rubber eagle buttons (they're sewn under the interior front facing).


THE ARISTOCRATS!