They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

[JimKindred]

This came up several months ago but now it is back in full force. Oh, yes, some of your .60 cal plus muzzloaders are included.

"....or, in the case of an antique firearm, antique handgun, 1[traditional]1 muzzleloader rifle, or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, ...."

You folks in NJ might want to start contacting your Assembly Members unless you feel it is ok for your 1842 Springfields and Brown Bess' to be banned.

New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Please Contact Your Assembly Members Today!

On Monday, November 17, the New Jersey Assembly is scheduled to vote on A2116, legislation banning most firearms over .50 caliber.

Though previously amended in an attempt to address gun owner concerns, the legislation would still ban virtually all firearms over .50 caliber, including many popular modern day muzzleloaders. A2116 is so poorly drafted that it would even outlaw firearms manufactured during the Revolutionary and Civil War eras and their modern day replicas.

Instead of targeting criminals, A2116 singles out law-abiding gun owners and punishes them by banning their guns.

Please contact your Assembly Members IMMEDIATELY and respectfully urge them to oppose A2116. Their contact information can be found by clicking here - http://www.capwiz.com/nra/state/main...ew=myofficials

Text of A2116 is here - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/2116_R2.HTM

[csabugler]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Well, yeah, Jim. make guns illegal and then the criminals won't be able to get them!

[unclefrank]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Gun owners will once again be under seige. Prepare now, and wait for better times. :(

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Hallo!

At the bottom of the bill:

"STATEMENT

This bill amends N.J.S.2C:39-1 to revise the definition of "destructive device" so that it includes weapons of 50 caliber or greater.

Although it centers primarily on devices or instruments designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, the current statutory definition of "destructive device" also includes weapons which fire projectiles of greater than 60 caliber.

Under the bill, it would be unlawful to possess a firearm having a caliber of 50 caliber or greater. A person violating this provision would be guilty of a crime of the third degree. A crime of the third degree is punishable by a fine of up to $15,000, imprisonment for three to five years, or both.

The bill does, however, provide exemptions for 1) antique firearms; 2) antique handguns; 3) traditional muzzleloader rifles; and 4) black powder muzzleloaders having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State. These firearms would continue to be governed by the statute's current "greater than 60 caliber" restriction. Antique firearms and handguns are defined in the statutes as firearms which:

(1) do not fire fixed ammunition or were manufactured before 1898 and for which fixed ammunition is not commercially available; and

(2) are possessed as a curiosity or ornament or for their historical significance or value. The statutory definition of antique handgun includes "replicas."

The bill defines a traditional muzzleloader rifle to mean a single shot, single barrel, side lock percussion or flintlock firearm with iron or peep sights and a wooden stock.

Finally, the bill affords an exemption to persons who lawfully possessed a firearm of a caliber of 50 caliber or greater on or before the effective date of the bill. This "grandfather" provision will permit those persons to continue to possess lawfully their large caliber firearms."

Curt

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Curt,

Where I obtained the announcement - http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4228

At the link provided I do not see the paragraph you have in your post.

It does state the following -

SYNOPSIS

Revises definition of destructive device to include weapons of 50 caliber or greater.

CURRENT VERSION OF TEXT

As amended by the General Assembly on October 27, 2008.

c. "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber of 50 caliber or greater [than 60 caliber] or, in the case of an antique firearm, antique handgun, 1[traditional]1 muzzleloader rifle, or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes; (4) any Molotov cocktail or other device consisting of a breakable container containing flammable liquid and having a wick or similar device capable of being ignited. The term does not include any device manufactured for the purpose of illumination, distress signaling, line-throwing, safety or similar purposes.

No exemption is given on this website.

It is a bit confusing when compared to other states in that muzzleloaders fall into two classifications - Destructive Devices and Antiques.

C3 is so much simplier than this.

[ephraim_zook]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Jim,

Not fer nothin', but look whose website you found it on -- the ol' "If the sky ain't falling on gun owners, tell them that it is anyhow" site.

Ron Myzie

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Maybe so but I am not looking for a straight answer from the Brady Campaign either.

The link I used to reference the text of the legislation was from the state of NJ - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/2116_R2.HTM

Fortunately I live in a state where any mention of gun control by a politician is just about a sure career stopper.

[ThehosGendar]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

"...any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber of 50 caliber or greater [than 60 caliber] or, in the case of an antique firearm, antique handgun, 1[traditional]1 muzzleloader rifle, or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes; "

Since all of our Springfields, Enfields, Lorenzes, Sharps, etc., do not have an in-line ignition, center hammer, or under hammer, we're okay. Pistols are under .50 calibre, and presumably, would seem to be acceptable.

So, once again, as Mr. Myzie said, the sky is not falling. But, we'll be rehashing this one in what... say, six months?

[JimKindred]

You missed a part -

"......traditional muzzleloader or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber,...."

By their definition of a traditional muzzleloader you are back in the game -

" ee. 1["Traditional muzzleloader] “Muzzleloader1 rifle" means a single shot, single barrel, side lock percussion or flintlock firearm with iron or peep sights 1, or with a fiber optic sight or scope,1 and a 1[wooden]1 stock 1made of wood or any synthetic material1 .
(cf: P.L.2002, c.130, s.5)"

Some additional information here -

http://blog.nj.com/njv_scott_bach/2008/11/banning_guns_by_the_size_of_th.html

Jim Kindred

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

The discussion is about this particular legislative proposal in NJ only. The only reason we are discussing this legislation is because it directly affects reenactors. I do not want this thread to turn into an all inclusive discussion on the subject of gun control outside of this legislation. When that happens too many nut cases on both sides of the issue come out.

Should another state or the Feds propose other legislation that DIRECTLY affects reenactors we will discuss that when the time comes. At the present time no other legislation of this type is pending so we will stick with this one and not get into something that has not yet happened. If anyone wants to discuss gun control at levels beyond this the internet is full of forums specifically for that topic but not here.

[CeeBeeRebel]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

"The bill defines a traditional muzzleloader rifle to mean a single shot, single barrel, side lock percussion or flintlock firearm with iron or peep sights and a wooden stock."

I believe under this provision then there might be a possible exemption for your muzzle loading double barrel shotguns due to the fixed ammo clause but at the same time though you wouldn't be able to procure a Remington Model 1900 if I am reading this correctly due to the ammo and post 1894 date.

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Muskets fall under their definition of a desctructive device if over .60 cal.

Either way following Monday's vote we will all have the answer. Fortunately there is an allowance for those currently owning one of the banned destructive device muskets.

[GermanDraftee]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

You missed a part -

"......traditional muzzleloader or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber,...."

By their definition of a traditional muzzleloader you are back in the game -

" ee. 1["Traditional muzzleloader] “Muzzleloader1 rifle" means a single shot, single barrel, side lock percussion or flintlock firearm with iron or peep sights 1, or with a fiber optic sight or scope,1 and a 1[wooden]1 stock 1made of wood or any synthetic material1 .
(cf: P.L.2002, c.130, s.5)"

Some additional information here -

http://blog.nj.com/njv_scott_bach/2008/11/banning_guns_by_the_size_of_th.html

Jim Kindred

The text quoted by Curt, with the "Statement" at the end, is here: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/2116_I1.HTM

This is also a NJ legislature page.

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

The text quoted by Curt, with the "Statement" at the end, is here: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bi...00/2116_I1.HTM

This is also a NJ legislature page.

You are correct but that link is for the legislation as it was originally proposed 25 Feb 08, the link I posted is the legislation "As amended by the General Assembly on October 27, 2008".

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bills/A2500/2116_R2.HTM

They made some changes and the part about not firing fixed ammunition is no longer there.

[ephraim_zook]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Jim,

I'm now confused. Below is the first paragraph of the link (the 27 October amendment) you cited:

Be It Enacted by the Senate and General Assembly of the State of New Jersey:



1. N.J.S.2C:39-1 is amended to read as follows:

2C:39-1. Definitions. The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

a. "Antique firearm" means any rifle or shotgun and "antique cannon" means a destructive device defined in paragraph (3) of subsection c. of this section, if the rifle, shotgun or destructive device, as the case may be, is incapable of being fired or discharged, or which does not fire fixed ammunition, regardless of date of manufacture, or was manufactured before 1898 for which cartridge ammunition is not commercially available, and is possessed as a curiosity or ornament or for its historical significance or value.


Ron Myzie