They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Well, I missed that part, I was looking for it where it had been written in the original draft.

You know as well as I do that NJ is one of those states that will interpet the law however they see fit regardless of how it is written. For example NJ routinely disregards the provisions of the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986. I am sure if this passes that in the not too distant future someone is going to be standing on the side of the road explaining to a NJ State Trooper why his musket is legal while at the same time assuming the position over the hood of his car. You can be within the law and still end up in front of a judge.

I passed the information a few minutes ago to David Hardy, a firearms attorney and writer, to get his opinion. http://armsandthelaw.com/

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

What I received from David Hardy clarified the confusion.

You have to look at the definition of a destructive device, para 1c(3) and not just 1a. Definition of an antique firearm -

c. "Destructive device" ................(3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber of 50 caliber or greater [than 60 caliber]or, in the case of an antique firearm, antique handgun, 1[traditional]1 muzzleloader rifle, or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which have been approved for hunting in this State of a caliber greater than 60 caliber

In the destructive device paragraph those muzzleloaders greater than 60 caliber will be classified as destructive devices.

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Additional information from Scott Bach who is president of the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs and a member of the NRA Board of Directors. He is also a member of law enforcement and an attorney licensed to practice in four states. His prior experience includes internships in the U.S. Congress, the U.S. Attorney's office, and the U.S. Court of Appeals.

From email received 17 Nov 08 2:38PM -

"NJ law is extremely convoluted and its impact not always evident without familiarity with other sections of law. Certain guns over .60 caliber (including many revolutionary war and civil war guns) that do not fire fixed ammunition are currently exempted from NJ’s 60+ caliber prohibition already in place, because they fit a portion of the definition of shotguns in NJ. Because of definitional changes in the new legislation, those guns would now be banned. Among many other hidden nuances…."

If this passes I would stick with .58 cal muskets in NJ and for non NJ residents I would certainly recommend leaving that 1842 Springfield at home if attending an event in NJ. Being charged with possession of a destructive device will surely just make your day.

[Army30th]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

I'll go one further for you: if you carry a pistol in NJ during a reenactment, you might want to have a permit to carry. Even though it's "black powder", to the great state of Joisey, a pistol is a pistol no matter when it was made, and therefore permits to carry are required.

It's not enforced, but just wait.......

[unclefrank]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

My condolences to the inmates of New Jersey.

[ephraim_zook]

Evidently it passed in the State Assembly

A2116 Revises definition of destructive device to include weapons of 50 caliber or greater.
2nd Reading in the Assembly



Last Session Bill Number: A3998 (1R)

Gusciora, Reed as Primary Sponsor
Ramos, Ruben J., Jr. as Primary Sponsor



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2/25/2008 Introduced, Referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee
6/12/2008 Transferred to Assembly Judiciary Committee
6/12/2008 Reported out of Assembly Comm. with Amendments, 2nd Reading
10/27/2008 Assembly Floor Amendment Passed (Gusciora)
11/17/2008 Assembly Floor Amendment Passed (Gusciora)

Introduced - 8 pages PDF Format HTML Format
Reprint - 7 pages PDF Format HTML Format
Statement - AJU 6/12/08 - 2 pages PDF Format HTML Format
Floor Statement - Assembly 10/27/08 1R - 1 pages PDF Format HTML Format
Reprint - 7 pages PDF Format HTML Format

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Committee Voting:
AJU 6/12/2008 - r/Aca - Yes {5} No {1} Not Voting {0} Abstains {0} - Roll Call
Greenstein, Linda R. (C) - Yes Barnes, Peter J., III (V) - Yes Casagrande, Caroline - No
Gusciora, Reed - Yes Handlin, Amy H. - Yes Spencer, L. Grace - Yes


Ron Myzie

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

In the case of CW and RW reenactors it classifies 1842 Springfields and RW muskets as destructive devices.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/desctructive-devices-dds/

In New Jersey you cannot own the following NFA restricted items.
Silencers
Short Barreled Shotguns (SBS)
Short Barreled Rifles (SBR)
Destructive Devices (DD)

Folks if you did not write or call your assemblyman you have absolutely no reason to complain about this new restriction. Too many reenactors stick their head in the sand when it comes to gun control thinking this will never effect them, well, think again.

[Army30th]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

The Bill has been tabled until the 15th of the month of December, so the anti-gun advocates and scare up more support.

[Michael Comer]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Not being familiar with NJ government organization, I'm a bit confused. The thread says the ban was in the Assembly but it looks to me like this was only in committee at this point and has not gone before the entire assembly. Is that correct?

[ephraim_zook]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

I'm not sure about the process either but it looks like it came out of committee back in June.

Ron Myzie

[JimKindred]

In the final version that was adopted reenactors dodged the bullet. It would appear someone got their attention at the last minute. -

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2008/Bills/A2500/2116_S3.PDF

ASSEMBLY No. 2116

with Assembly Floor Amendments

(Proposed By Assemblyman GUSCIORA)


ADOPTED: NOVEMBER 17, 2008

Assembly Bill No. 2116 (2R) revises the definition of a destructive device to include weapons of 50 caliber or more. Under the bill and subsection a. of N.J.S.2C:59-3, it would be unlawful to possess a firearm having a caliber of 50 caliber or greater.

These Assembly amendments clarify that the term “destructive device” does not include any of the following weapons having a caliber of 50, but not exceeding a caliber of 60: antique firearm; antique handgun; muzzleloader rifle; or black powder muzzleloader having in-line ignition, a center hammer or an under hammer which has been, or subsequently is, approved for hunting in this State. It would not be unlawful to possess these weapons under the amended bill.

The amendments also exclude from the definition of a destructive device any firearm with a bore diameter larger than 60 caliber whose principle means of ignition are traditional flintlock or caplock and whose principle propellant is black powder. This would allow the possession of certain weapons greater than 60 caliber currently used by revolutionary war re-enactors.

Finally, the amendments expand the definition of an “antique firearm” and “antique cannon” to include replicas of these rifles, shotguns, or destructive devices.

From what I gather from the NJ legislature website the assembly is the equivalent of the state house of representatives as you have in other states.

While reenactors escaped this time, it does not lessen the need to continue to watch such legislation. We could be included in a ban by accident due to bad wording. In the first assualt weapons ban any firearm of military configuration having a bayonet lug would have been an assualt weapon. This poor wording would have included reenactor muskets had the proposed legislation not been changed. Of course there is also the possibility of being included in a ban on purpose by some dim witted legislator.

Jim Kindred

[BobbyHughes]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Correct me if I am wrong, but when the old Assault Weapons ban was passed, I think Henry rifles were included as an assault weapon due to the capacity of the magazine.. such an action could also have an effect on reenactors.

[JimKindred]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

You are correct about the Henry rifles, they were at one time going to be classified as assault rifles right along side AR15s and semi AK47s. This would have also included a number of other non period lever action rifles based simply on their magazine capacity.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: They're back - New Jersey Assembly to Vote on Gun Ban on Monday, November 17!

Hallo!

Correct...

"Henry's" and "Winchesters" fell into the initial category to be banned as their "magazines" held more than 10 (ten) rounds.

Curt