Derby Hats in CW

[Ian M.]

I'm curious as to when the "Derby Hat" took hold in America and whether it was therefore a hat style of some note during the civil war years. Internet research has turned up noticeably little for me, other than it began its life in England as the Bowler in 1849-1850 and came to the U.S. sometime thereafter, achieving great prominence here by the latter part of the century.

With respect to CW impressions, be they civvie or serving with latitude on hat choice, I've seen period photos of hats with elements of the derby but cannot recall anything precisely matching. The derby of which I speak is the basic one we're all familiar with: rounded crown, of short to medium hieight; rolled brim turned up on the sides and relatively small-medium in width.

[13thnhv]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

Ian,

I am very happy you posted this query, as I have a pretty fine derby I bought some time back from Clearwater Hats and have hesitated to leave the house with it for fear I am out of the time period. I know definitively they were introduced to America in ca. 1860, but I, too, cannot find any proof positive via photos or other sources that they were worn during the war years. I would love to give this derby some use and look forward to any knowledgeable members offering help with this issue. Curt? Anyone?

[Ian M.]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

I have a nice one too, not sure of the maker, and find myself in the same conundrum as you. Looks great with a CSA or federal shell, frock or state issue jacket, but would this be anachronistic?

If they began arriving on the scene around 1860, there must have been some, but prevalence during the war (i.e., was it at least conceivable that they were available in fairly large numbers) would be a great thing to have some expert opinion on.

[Secesh]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

Gents,
Look at photos of the 1880's thru the early 1900's and you'll find derby hats all the vogue. There's an existing photo taken in New York, 1902 I believe, of Butch Cassidy & "The Wild Bunch" posing with derbies on. Also, in photos of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake they can also be seen...Personally I believe that they were not very widespread at the time of the War....Just my 2 cents.

[Brian Baird]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

If you look thru the Library of Congress photos, you will see a few men wearing derby's. The style in 1860's were like this:

http://www.benderhats.com/plug.html

Brian Baird

[13thnhv]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

As with Ian's version, mine has a taller crown (not by much) and it looks just like the aforementioned 1880's-later version. Clearwater markets it as a CW hat, but I have second thoughts on the accuracy. Looking to justify a wartime use only. Maybe.....NOT.....and it will remain where it lays. Thanks, guys.

[Jon The Beloved]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

Maybe this would be bad advice.. but perhaps you could steam the brim into a different sort of shape and telescope or push in the crown a bit.. you might be pleased with the turnout.. Then again, it may not even be plausible. But I wouldn't wear it as is because it would be so obvious as to what it is and (to many) from what time period it is. It might make a better civ'y hat than an enlisted man's for practical reasons. But of course we must always honor the specs of our events.. and if in "true" doubt.. leave it out.

Just my 2 pence.. ol' chap!

Good day I say!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

Hallo!

IMHO...

"Bowler" and "Derby" are a confusing pair of almost, but not identical twins.
However, the classic "British Derby" form/pattern/style is post War and became the fashion/fad from the 1870's (hanging on longer in England than in turn of the century/WWI U.S.

However, there are CW era "bowlers" that are "essentially" "derbies" meaning a rounded crown with rounded rather than parallel sides below, with a curled brim being worn- particularly by cavalrymen. But, I think the "difference" is that the crowns are all crushed, telescoped, or flattened rather than left with the "Derby's" distinctive very round and rounded crown.

Off the top of my head (a very dangerous place), I believe I remember no written or photographic Derby style references until the late 1860's and early 1870's beginning in New York City (?)?

Others' mileage, but not so much Period images, will vary...

Curt

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Derby Hats in CW

For those of us not freezing our butts off at Remembrance Day...

From what I recall, Curt is right on with there being differences between bowler and derby hats. The bowler hat being first devised by Thomas and William Bowler (Lock & Company) in 1849, St. James', London for English hunting purposes.

I haven't seen many of these hats being worn during the war and certainly even scarcer prevalence during the Antebellum period. The peak of its popularity was most definitely at the turn of the 19th century. I would argue that it was the "middle ground hat": between the formality of the top hat and that of the slouch hat, typically found amoungst the lower classes.

In the United States, the derby hat had different culture significance as it could be found on the head of many urban elites and political machines, who had risen from the working class.

However, I immediately recalled the photograph LC-DIG-cwpb-04172, "Washington, D.C. Hospitals, Signal Corps camp quarters near Georgetown". Two guys are seen wearing derby hats. Tom mentioned the print, "Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch, 1900" (housed at the National Portrait Gallery) which is a good example of this change.

http://photography.si.edu/SearchImage.aspx?S=2&IDC=73&id=318