Can you dye woolrich?

[Hard Case62]

I was doing some reading of confederates taking captured federal great coats, and dyeing them brown or black. I have a federal great coat made of woolrich wool and am thinking of dyeing it to use for my sesh kit. My concern is if the 15% synthetic part of the woolrich wool will take to natural dies. If anyone has any information that could help me with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt Sternad

[lukegilly13]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

I would recommend that you contact Ben Tart....he tends to be VERY knowledgeable on dying different materials
http://www.bentart.com

[Spinster]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

Matt,

No, the man-made portion of your Woolrich garment will NOT take a natural dye, however well prepped and mordanted the material is. This is actually a function of fiber structure and chemistry involved in natural dyes.

The question then becomes, what will the man-made portion do? One of two things can happen. Some natural dye processes actually go through a chemical reaction that strips prior color before dyeing--if you are using that type of dye process, the nylon portion will strip to white and will not take the new dye. The effect may be a salt and pepper sort of varigation, or visible straight lines, depending on how the nylon was used in the weaving process.

Depending on whether a polyester thread was used in sewing, you'll also have some challenges there. Even a good cotton or linen thread will take the dye differently than the wool coat, and you will see some color variation even in the best case scenario.

And you have an additional difficulty--natural dye processes run at anywhere from 120 degrees to boiling--and do so for several hours. This can cause unusal shrinkage in your garment, especially since you will need to lift and air the garment several times in the process to attempt to get even color.

If this is a coat you picked up off sutler row, for not much money, then maybe you want to risk the pitfalls of this process, for the sake of experience and an interesting piece. If this is a high quality, well made coat by , say, Fred Baker, Chris Daley, Corner Clothiers, or Dan Wambaugh, ---no, I would not risk a coat like that to a process that has the potential to make it unuseable.

Now, if you have a smaller, shorter, brother who needs a coat.........

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

Woolrich carries both sky blue and dark blue wool kersey in 100% natural fiber (which would be wool). Their jeancloth is also 100% cotton and wool. If you had an overcoat made from this material a top-dye MIGHT be done with the results you're looking for. Get ready for shrinkage, raising of the fabric's nap, etc. because the dye bath will be hot.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

I was doing some reading of confederates taking captured federal great coats, and dyeing them brown or black. I have a federal great coat made of woolrich wool and am thinking of dyeing it to use for my sesh kit. My concern is if the 15% synthetic part of the woolrich wool will take to natural dies. If anyone has any information that could help me with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Matt Sternad

Short answer: Bad idea....

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

Short Answer: Don't try this at home, Kiddies!
-Sell it and use the funds as a start on a new one.:)

[Hard Case62]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

Thanks all,
Looks like I am going to have to take a different rout to keep warm as sesh. Thanks for the input.

Matt Sternad

[lukegilly13]

Re: Can you die woolrich?

Matt,
I went through this once several years ago...I had a mainstream federal overcoat that I bought used for around $100. I wanted to do the same thing you're talking about and someone told me to use vinegar in the dye and the fabric would take and hold the new dye better....This was a suggestion based on modern techniques however, I wondered what effect (if any) it would have on natural dyes. I think "black" was often the goal when they tried to change the color....so luckily you are trying to take something light and make it darker....
Here's what I ended up doing and it worked. I left my greatcoat out on the deck on a hanger as if someone were wearing it for several days during the summer when I didn't need it. It faded to a nice ugly powder blue with almost a greenish hue. I then soaked it in coffee overnight, let it air dry naturally, and then repeated the process...it gave it a very ugly sort of brownish bluish color...but did NOT look much like the original color....
Don't get me wrong, it looked like a VERY dirty federal overcoat...but I always felt like when mixed with confederates I would not have been mistaken for an enemy. I think the common practice would of been to boil it but i'm sure they tried many different ideas....I can't show you documentation of soldiers dying/staining their overcoats with coffee...but it was a drastic measure and seemed to be more correct than using modern dye. I wish I had pictures but I no longer have the overcoat.

I only recommend trying this if it is a low quality coat....if it's a well made high quality one...i'd say sell it and start over. Hope this helps.

[-Jesse-]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

Im gonna go with Aaron.....Bad Idea..

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

"Authentic Campaigner" -- polyester --enough said.

[North_State_Rambler]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

I have been told by knowledgeable folks that according to US law, cloth can still be marketed as 100% wool even if it contains up to 10% synthetic fiber content. Over the past few years I have dealt with a lot of supposedly 100% wool cloth coming out of England for Rev War clothing. While the seller swear up and down that "no synthetic fibers were used in this construction," several of us who have worked with the cloth suspect that the mill workers throw some poly in there to make the cloth easier on the machines. Proof? Well, let's just say we've all picked more than a few poly threads out from inside the cloth.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

I don't think you guys are understanding me. Woolrich is marketing 100% wool kersey that really is 100% wool kersey. It's not listed on their online catalogue and it's a bit more expensive than the usual stuff they offer (with synthetic). Needle & Thread sells both the 100% wool and 15% synthetic Woolrich kersey as well as their jeancloth.

I know that people have done tests on the Woolrich fabrics several years ago but their all wool kersey only came out maybe two years ago. Contact Dan Wambaugh or myself if you want a sample to throw in some bleach or light on fire!

[AZReenactor]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

Brian,
I have a bolt of the woolrich 100% wool sky blue kersey that I've been working through since I got it a year or two ago. It made it through bleach and burn tests quite well.

It is certainly not their 80%-20% poly-wool blend and is indeed some nice material. It seems a little lighter weight than some of the other kersey I've seen but makes a decent pair of trousers. Glad to know others out there are using it as well. Hopefully it will stay a part of their product line and readily available.

However, I suspect the Woolrich this thread is talking about is the polyester blend and I don't think I'd try dying a coat made from it. But then I really don't think I'd want to use a coat that was 20% polyester either.

[Hard Case62]

The coat I am thinking of using for this alteration is made by Stony Brook Company. It is made from the 85/15 woolrich blend. It is very well made, that is why I wanted to use it for my sesh kit, but then again I don’t want to ruin it. I feel the same way most people do about the 85/15 blend, that is why I am going on the hunt for a 100% wool one to die now.

That brings up a second question now, what sort of natural dies would a confederate soldier, or company have access to in the field for this alteration from sky blue to a brown or black color?

Will post new thread on this subject.

Thanks,
Matt Sternad

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Can you dye woolrich?

Hallo!

A common black dyestuff at the time was logwood mordanted with iron.

IMHO, I see this more as something done on a larger scale, perhaps even larger than a company and not likely the project of a single soldier looking for a color change on is own.
(The kettle or cauldron needed to dye a greatcoat would be a bear to transport around.. ;) )

(I do have a reference to some Feds dyeing their issue white shirts blue with maple bark- but if I remember correctly it is not clear as to whether it was a company or regimental project.)

Curt