Attitude

[Thomas Alleman]

Well since all these very authentic events that are coming up it is time we talk the talk and not just walk the walk. We spend so much on "Hardcool" equipment and show off the new duds and gear but what come out of our mouth is not always period. I think that at EVERY event there is modern talk and although it is not always around it is still there. I think BUMMERS should be that event where the modern world stays away if not just for a moment. First person is not hard and not complicated to develop. Come on we are ham actors anyway in just what we do, like talk to the public so why not go for broke and do it up right, up the spout, learn some terms at least and get into the realm of impossibility.

I know that the most first person I ever did was at outpost 1999, I did like 99%, I traded with the feds, taunted them, and the deserted at night crossing a river and then running into confederates on the fed side of the river, then attacking a "outpost" which was a grand guard then fleeing into the night, OK parking lot, all in first person, what a rush. Thank you Lucas Berg and buddies.

So that is my challenge, you can even try this at other events, I dare you. It is like women, I like to look at them but it is what comes out of their mouths that excites me, a little sass and good conversation can go allot longer than a one nightier, get it. We are at a material point where we have great reproductions, done so much research and with that we can make a awesome experience like no other. Who knows what things will be like or who will be here for the 150th's, so lets concentrate on making this a top rail event.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: Attitude

Whole-heartedly agreed. And, I would add, the first requirement for that is to start researching the men we're portraying as well as we have researched their kits.

So, who has started researching the man in their impression for Bummers, not just his materials? Who can tell me where their regiment was from, their politics, their backgrounds, and back it up with citations? Who has made out their reading list? Who is going to? As Thomas says, time to step up to the plate, boys. Don't depend on your neighbor in the ranks to do the tough book work, get out and start yourself.

Yes, 12th Indiana, there will be a quiz. :wink_smil

[Thomas Alleman]

Re: Attitude

By no responses I see that this dark side of the hobby gets no respect, is not learning to be a civil war solider is what we are trying to do? To live the life, to feel the pains and toils that we read about, I know my feet have. I only try to go to events that are put on by people who want to do it right or original battlefield or preservation events because my time and money needs to be well spent. I do not drive to any state to hear about your Ipod. I am not a first person saint but I try to keep the modern talk either hidden or on the down low. For those who know me I know they can attest to my first person being able to catch them off guard. Hey frank.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Attitude

Hi,

I am looking forward to trying out my first person impression at ITPW and Olustee. While researching the material is much easier than first person, I have found that is very interesting and fun. Now my first person impression is a work in progress, but I am hoping to have a very solid one for Bummers. Thanks for posting the thread Mr. Alleman.

Thanks

Andrew

[J_V]

Re: Attitude

Agreed. I don't go to Civil War reenactments to hear about World War II reenactments. Someone once asked, "Do they talk Civil War at World War II events?" --A valid question sometimes.

Other things I don't go to events to hear about: what he/she said on a CW discussion forum, how that guy is a $#@$% because he disagrees with me, how authentic someone's shirt is (fine before the event starts and after it ends), etc.

I don't mind semi-immersion, but folks should at least work with what they have.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Attitude

Okay, I've read long enough... time for me to open my big fat mouth. :p

I'm all for keeping in 'firper' at events. No problem there. After all, what did you buy the ultra-kewl gear and drive/fly 1500+ miles for? Plus, events are way better when people stick to the period in attitude and how they carry themselves while the event is live.

2 big issues here with this are: a) most of us aren't professional actors and cannot hold to firper 24/7 at an event (a challenging task even for a professional actor) b) most of us don't get to see each other in the flesh but at events and this naturally leads to sidebar discussions even when the event is live.

I slip out of firper naturally after awhile... mea culpa... but for the most part, I hold to it and have fun with the experience. Provided people are making their best efforts at holding to firper while an event is live, I have no problem.

On that related note, attitude is everything. I attended the 190th Waterloo reenactment in Waterloo, Belgium back in 2005 and there was this British guy that fell in with us that wouldn't stop complaining about everything. Jeez! That made me want to smack him upside the head. Why, for the love of Pete, does one do a hobby, knowing fulll-well the discomfort involved, in which one complains the entire time??? While complaining is natural for ANY soldier of ANY era, there needs to be a point in which those complaints cease and one must realize that life in wool does, in fact, have the potential to suck royally... it was no different for our Civil War ancestors, except they had no modern medicine, sanitation, etc. and someone was actually trying their darndest to kill them.

If my ancestors could suck it up for their whole lifetimes, I sure can grin and bear it for a weekend.

All the best- Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Attitude

Gentlemen, I would gently suggest, if a person is having a hard time sustaining an impression for a full day, that person ought to learn more about life in the mid-century. Many in the hobby are woefully ignorant about everyday life, what they did before the war, what their family and friends are doing at home while they're away, what books and music are most interesting to them, what hopes and dreams they have for after they're done in the war... all these things provide rich background for the impression, and plenty of in-period things to chat about, if chatting is appropriate.

Self-control is needed, and the company of like-minded individuals is helpful, but there's no reason to say modern impressionists *can't* maintain an impression, because it's been done, easily, by quite a lot of citizen hobbyists who've decided to upgrade what they know and do. There's no reason military impressions can't do the same, with a bit of concerted effort to know the *non*-military world around them.

[LWhite64]

Re: Attitude

To add on to what Patrick said, you have to look at the men before the war, look at the 1860 census, look at studies of their state or part of their state, to be honest there really isnt a common soldier when you get beyond the uniforms, gear, and weapons, the soldiers in the 10th South Carolina were very different from the men of their sister regiments in Manigault's Brigade, the 1st Tennessee soldiers were very different from the men of the 27th Tennessee who they were consolidated with, and the men of the 41st Alabama were different from the Kentuckians they served with in the Orphan Brigade. Its all social history folks. If you are going to do first per, then you really should be reading social studies of the areas the soldier you are portraying came from, studying the 1860 census, and any county histories. If you dont then you are farbing out on fir per, it would be akin to wearing a Wheat's Tigers uniform portraying the 60th North Carolina.

[J_V]

Re: Attitude

"While complaining is natural for ANY soldier of ANY era, there needs to be a point in which those complaints cease"

Agreed. One thing about first person complaining that I think needs mentioning is that soldiers were probably not terribly prone to complaining about duties such as marching the short distances and very light details involved in many reenactments. In fact, many of them would probably be overjoyed to only have to gather fire wood, march a short distance, and drill just a couple of times in good weather.

[ajroscoe]

Re: Attitude

I think part of the whole discussion of attitude and first person scares a lot of people who are new to this side of the hobby. This last summer, at AHT, my company did first person all weekend. I was posing as Cpl. Pat Fallihee, B co, 1st MN volunteers. Fallihee was a cobbler, a profession that I lack almost complete knowledge (as are most of the people on this forum I bet). But for me, i kept first person most of the weekend (yes, just most of it) because I concentrated on being a soldier.
What it isn't first person about leading a canteen detail? About polishing brass and rifles with fire ash? What isn't first person about policing the camp, drill, and cooking? These soldiers all came from the same towns, by and large. They didn't need to sit there and find out about each other's home towns, they lived there too! Now, of course, people would talk about the people from home, but if you don't know something about their past, either avoid it, or talk about your own family in period terms, aka, be a method actor.
We are portraying soldiers, and I agree with Johnny, they certainly complained and whined (we still do today in the military), but they also certainly dealing with soldiering far more than trying to espouse on the minute details of their home lives and professions. If you don't know enough about those things to stay in first person with them, don't. Concentrate on being a soldier, and being a good one. THAT is being in first person.

[Hairy Nation Boys]

Re: Attitude

No responses. We have been doing this for going on twenty years. I guess I don't have to respond to something we do each and every year.

Our rule about modern talk. If you want to talk modern walk away from everyone else and be very quiet. That way you are not taking the moment away from the rest. We have done this for going on 15 years and it works.

We also have first person names from one regiment (11th Iowa Company G) or use family names. We stay with those name at every event and we go by those names in real life. I know some people pick new names each event. All that turns into is a bunch of guys asking "what is your name?" Usually our first person begins when we get in the van to head to our next event. We have been around each other so long we know our stories, we know who our family members are, what our proffessions are etc. That is the best way. You don't have to be an actor to do first person. Be real. Take issues from your real life and make them 19th century. Once again I/we have been doing this for a while and we know what we are doing. I not saying we are perfect. We have fallen out of first person but we police one another.

Tom, I applaud anyone who doesn't already do this and wants to try. Remember being silent is first person!

At Into the Piney Woods I do not want to hear about this site, football, modern politics, or any other crap.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Attitude

Some good observations and Holler hit on one of the fundamentals, silence and not conversing is certainly period.

The truth is that simply avoiding modern topics and discussions already puts one well onto the path to first person. If you aren't comfortable talking in first person, try listening in first person.

First person is best when it flows forth comfortably and naturally and that requires learning the role you play in the period context. It isn't as simple as learning a list of facts and information that you can rehearse and spit out to draw attention to your knowledge of historic details. It also takes learning who you are and how you might think, behave, and act in a period context as well as learning to help those around you to share their own first person persona. It isn't a performance where one trys to upstage another but a conversation that multiple players have to participate in (even if their participation is to listen to the more conversant around them) for it to be realistic.

[Drygoods]

Re: Attitude

I'm not a soldier, but I'd have to agree with a few points that Mr. Alleman has made. What keeps me going in this hobby is the hope of finding well read people to do interpretation with. Modern chatter is common, you can scarcely escape it unless you have firm rules within your group, and fine those who forget that it doesn't belong.

As a lark, I will add to the line of thought that as for attitude, yes it's a sexy thing. I live with a truly hideous looking husband, but what makes him dreamy to me is the fact that he can quote all sorts of historic facts, can give me the most accurate details of Mexican war events as though he was just there, can quote speeches from 150 years ago like he just heard them today, and can play host to an amazing amount of hazardous materials simply to reproduce a period item for me as a gift. The fact that he doesn't visit dentists and wears a period hairstyle and beard makes him all the more attractive to me, but it is his mind that excites me.

Yes, age is just fine despite that as we age we find it more difficult to do interpretation out in the field. You young sprouts may not see it yet, but although age is a physical thing, and may not yet limit what events you can attend, what makes a truly fantastic interpreter is his mental ability to think factually fast and plays well with others.

Attitude IS everything, and unless you are there, and can feel the thrill of being in a perfect crowd of people who know their history, and can remain deep in conversation without any hesitation, or defects into modern life, then you just aren't authentic yet. Call me a kook if you want, but beauty and talent isn't skin deep, it's what you find once you scratch below the surface, it is what is learned deep down that makes the best authentic interpretation, it's like historic instinct, and doing it really, really well.

and here's a personal note to a few friends of mine who might be reading this....you know who you are... don't let anybody give you a ration because of your age, you're smart as a whip and that is simply dirt sexy to your friends, who might also be getting on in years.:D

[Hank Trent]

Re: Attitude

Our rule about modern talk. If you want to talk modern walk away from everyone else and be very quiet. That way you are not taking the moment away from the rest. We have done this for going on 15 years and it works.

That's a common rule I see posted for various events, and one thing I'd like to add, speaking in general about the rule as I've experienced it at other events and not about Harrison Holloway's group:

Just because someone comes up to you during an event and proposes that you and he go off and talk about modern things, doesn't mean you have to say yes! Part of the "attitude" is trying to make an event more accurate overall, which means helping others to be more accurate also, rather than assisting those who want to make it less accurate. I've been to events where that's the rule, and it turns out that virtually everyone has teamed up with a little group and turned to modern talk, and I'm left alone, walking from group to group trying to overhear a modern conversation to join. Perfectly within the rules, but perfectly farby.

Tom, I applaud anyone who doesn't already do this and wants to try. Remember being silent is first person!

At Into the Piney Woods I do not want to hear about this site, football, modern politics, or any other crap.

What he said!

The truth is that simply avoiding modern topics and discussions already puts one well onto the path to first person. If you aren't comfortable talking in first person, try listening in first person.

Him too! :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Annette Bethke]

Re: Attitude

Gentlemen, I would gently suggest, if a person is having a hard time sustaining an impression for a full day, that person ought to learn more about life in the mid-century. Many in the hobby are woefully ignorant about everyday life, what they did before the war, what their family and friends are doing at home while they're away, what books and music are most interesting to them, what hopes and dreams they have for after they're done in the war... all these things provide rich background for the impression, and plenty of in-period things to chat about, if chatting is appropriate.

Touche, Miss Elizabeth, that is such a hard thing to drive home; civilian information is not just for women anymore :)