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Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

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  • Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

    Today the author of The Physical Lincoln, Dr. John Sotos, was supposed to speak before our Civil War Round Table. Illustrations were crucial to his talk as he intended to show medical evidence that Lincoln. Back in 1996, some medical professionals determined that Lincoln had Marfan syndrome. Marfan can either affect the bone or the connective tissue. There are thirty characteristics that may manifest itself in Marfan. Dr. Sotos does not agree. Instead he asserts that Lincoln had MEN2B (multiple endocrine neoplasia type 2B). It's a cancer.

    Dr. Sotos couldn't give his talk and gave us the five minute version without the evidence or details. I was lucky enough to be seated next to him and we got along quite well because of his destroyer pin on his tie. His father was a DE sailor in WW II. Luckily they were out hunting first German subs and then Japanese subs and were never on picket duty looking out for kamikazes. Anyhow, I asked him how long Lincoln would have lived if he wasn't shot by Boothe. Without even pausing, he told me that Lincoln would have been dead within a year! His war weariness wasn't stress from the war but degeneration because of MEN2B.

    He has a short paperback on the subject. I bought the bigger book which has the paperback material plus all his notes. His research methodology was similar to my own (which is why I bought it). He pored over every bibliography on Abe and every original source to find that one comment that someone made about Lincoln's physical characteristic or appearance. For instance, "Was a fast eater, though not a very hearty one," or "Lincoln was a vegetable - His skin performed what other organs did for the [sic] He was sluggish - apathetic," or "He was never handsome, indeed, but he grew more and more cadaverous and ungainly month by month." There are hundreds if not thousands of like statements or observations that have been collected and categorized by Dr. Sotos. To we non-medicos, these obscure statements are easily overlooked and may not mean much, but taken cumulatively and in conjunction with examination of photographs, the death masks, casts of his hands and drawings, they provide a wealth of information that Dr. Sotos interprets to provide a fresh perspective on Lincoln. If you learn nothing else from the bigger book, it may be a way of organizing your research for analysis. Read the little paperback if you don't have the and want to get to the heart of his discussion.

    We're planning for Dr. Sotos to return with a working projector at some future date.
    GaryYee o' the Land o' Rice a Roni & Cable Cars
    High Private in The Company of Military Historians

  • #2
    Dear Gary:

    My brother does have Marfan Syndrome, which is a genetic disorder, and just to correct the good doctor's information, it can affect both the connective tissue and one's skeleton.

    What is Marfan Syndrome?
    For those not familiar, this is considered a rare genetic disorder and the most vital area that it affects is the heart. Most people with Marfan Syndrome are diagnosed posthumously. Because the connective tissue is weak, during the course of someone's lifetime the connective tissue holding various organs together just disintegrates. The place that is most vital and vulnerable is the aorta of the heart. This is the place where your blood pressure is strongest, as the heart pumps the blood out, it hits the inside of your aorta and then heads out through your body. The aorta is made up of three levels of tissue (sort of like an inner tube inside an inner tube inside a tire), each of which is held to the others with connective tissue. In someone with Marfan's Syndrome, the constant pressure of the blood zipping through the aorta causes these to loosen and the aorta gets bigger and bigger in circumference, until it can't expand any more, and the walls of the aorta start to rip. If the person doesn't get immediate surgery to replace the aorta, they will bleed to death when this happens. For those who want to know more about Marfans, check out http://www.marfan.org

    To our knowledge no one in the family had it before my brother. He was diagnosed at a family wedding by one of the guests who knew what Marfan Syndrome looked like. Once you've been educated to see it, anybody can pick it out on the street. We didn't know about it before my brother went to that wedding. Once he knew, he started being monitored by a cardiologist and five years ago his aorta was so large that he had the surgery to replace it, just in time.

    While a number of medical professionals have wondered about Lincoln and Marfan syndrome over the years, because it is a genetic disorder, we'll be able to know for sure some day whether he had it or not. Because bone fragments and some blood and hair were saved after the assassination, they will be able to test this at some point in the future. They've been holding off because with the current state of DNA testing, the test would destroy whatever material would be used for the sampling.

    In the future (who knows how long), they will be able to sample DNA without destroying the materials used for the sample. At that point I"m sure that "Did Lincoln have Marfan Syndrome?" will be one of the questions explored.

    Sincerely,
    Karin Timour
    Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
    Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
    Email: Ktimour@aol.com
    Last edited by KarinTimour; 01-21-2009, 07:21 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

      I would refer those advocating this theory to the article by Dr. John K. Lattimer in the 1991 issue of The Lincoln Fellowship of Wisconsin ( Historical Bulletin No. 46) "The Danger in Claiming That Abrham Lincoln Had The Marfan Syndrome".
      Lattimer convincingly (I think) refutes that theory. In short, Lincoln was known for feats of strength and endurance that a Marfans sufferer would be unwise or incapable of performing. Lincoln was robust, where Marfans is characterised by "spidery" limbs.
      Lattimer goes on to say that spreading this legend could be potentially dangerous as it might influence Marfan's patients to perform some of Lincoln's feats which could result in injury or worse.

      Joel Foust

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      • #4
        Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

        Dear Mr. Foust:

        Thank you for the reference, I'll certainly read it.

        I'm not personally invested in whether or not Lincoln had Marfan -- but if someone brings it up, I'll use it as an opening to try and raise awareness of Marfans. Marfans is most common in tall people. Most people have never heard of it, and if they have a family member with it, they usually find out after that person's premature death.

        My brother has been tall all his life, has long fingers and toes, and terrible nearsightedness. He wasn't diagnosed with Marfan's Syndrome until he was 26, by accident. We're quite close and I'm extremely grateful that he was diagnosed, as he has continued to get the regular medical screenings to monitor his heart, eyes, bones, etc. Quite suddenly, five years ago, his aorta and carodid artery grew in size, and he had major heart surgery within weeks. If he hadn't been having regular screenings, I"m certain he would have died at that point.

        I do public speaking about Marfans several times a year to raise awareness. Gary gave me the opening to raise it here. Perhaps someone reading these words will get screened or raise the issue with a tall person. I"m a big believer in the power of one person (or a few) to change the world. At this point over 250 people have read this thread. Probably a lot of you haven't ever heard of it, or didn't know much about it. Perhaps someone else will get diagnosed as a consequence, and get the medical care that will allow them to live past 35 or 40.

        I often get asked about Lincoln and Marfans, and will read the article and add the caveat whenver I"m asked about the connection in the future. I do know a bit about Lincoln, however, and I can agree that some of the things I know Lincoln did would be unwise for someone with Marfan to do. But I disagree that they'd universally be incapable of them. When my brother was diagnosed in his twenties, his major hobby was rock climbing and cave exploration, often with a lot of sheer wall climbing. He went on a lot of long bike trips, hiked, backpacked, canoed and kayacked. From a very young age he loved to run and ran everywhere someone else would walk. He ran track in high school. He lifted weights through college, and also constantly played racketball and paddleball.

        When he was diagnosed, his cardiologist told him to avoid lifing heavy objects, and to drastically cut down on aerobic exercise. He gave up cave exploration, rock climbing, back packing, weight lifting, racketball, paddleball and running. He still loves hiking, camping, canoeing and kayacking.

        People with Marfan Syndrome are wise to avoid aerobic exercise and lifting heavy objects, but they can still be fit and active.

        Sincerely,
        Karin Timour
        Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
        Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
        Email: Ktimour@aol.com
        Last edited by KarinTimour; 01-21-2009, 10:09 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

          How long would it have taken for Abe to die from syphillis?

          Fergus Bell

          "Give a man fire & he will be warm for a day, but set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life."
          Terry Pratchett

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          • #6
            Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

            Dear Mr. Bell:

            Well, this article claims he was infected in 1835 or 1836. There are three stages of syphilis, and my understanding is that most people die of the third stage. How long it takes to get there, and which of the many different symptoms and complications someone would have tends to vary. Just through some fast internet searches, it looks as though some people can die in 2-3 years, depending on what complications they get. But that's probably not typical. On the other hand, there is research showing a sizable number of people living 40 plus years with untreated syphilis.

            My two cents,
            Karin Timour
            Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
            Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
            Email: Ktimour@aol.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

              SIL has several tertiary syphilis patients who contracted it during WWII or Korea. She can't give details, of course, but they're still alive because of extensive medical care. At that time, it's hard to imagine more than 20 or 30 years before the tertiary stage set in.
              Becky Morgan

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              • #8
                Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

                Abe had his share of blue or red pills. I don't think the syphilis would have killed him as fast as the cure.
                GaryYee o' the Land o' Rice a Roni & Cable Cars
                High Private in The Company of Military Historians

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                • #9
                  Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

                  I see a poll question here. Sans lead poisoning, which would have killed Abe first:

                  1) Cancer

                  2) Marfan Syndrome

                  3) Syphillis

                  4) Mercury

                  5) Mary Todd
                  Fergus Bell

                  "Give a man fire & he will be warm for a day, but set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life."
                  Terry Pratchett

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

                    My stepfather is alive 32 years after a heart attack that left him with 25% of an operational heart. Basically the doctors gave him 5 years to live after that attack. Since then he has also survived colon cancer.

                    By brother died of cancer at 32, 1 year after the doctors told him he was in remission.

                    My point?

                    Doctors make MANY mistakes even when they have the patient right in front of them with today's modern knowledge.

                    Doctors trying to make long range diagnosis more than 100 years after the event And then trying to predict when the patient would have actually died should know better.

                    I am not saying he is wrong, I am saying his hubris is getting the better of him. His conclusion should have been: "I BELEIVE Lincoln had "X" and depending on the stage of the disease he would have had from "A to B" as a reasonable life expectancy."

                    Anything else is, in my opinion, grandstanding.
                    Bob Sandusky
                    Co C 125th NYSVI
                    Esperance, NY

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                    • #11
                      Re: Abe would have died within a year of being shot by Boothe

                      IMHO, you are correct, sir. That's why I tempered my post with "It's hard to imagine..." Doctors in that era might have had better hands-on diagnostic skills, but they lacked most of the laboratory tests and all of the radiography we now depend on so heavily. Even with all of that, as in your family's case, doctors are taking their best guess. It may be an informed one, based on 2000 cases of this, or 400 cases in which the heart functions like that--but it's still a guess.

                      And as to Mr. Bell's poll...I'm guessing #5.
                      Becky Morgan

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