The Two-Legged Stool???

[Greg Barnett]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

My thoughts are as follows (and simplified):

1) Get your material items correct for the event and the time being portrayed
2) Know you roll and physical duties to be performed during the event (no words spoken thus far)
3) Perform your duties, as commanded and according to your rank
4) Speak and interact with those around you as you duties relate to one another and as the moment calls for
5) Eliminate conversations unless they relate to one's specific duties as a soldier
6) Find "the" moment without even trying (priceless)

If an individual can do this, they will not break a first person role and they will not step on another's firper toes.

I believe it takes a bit more time than 48 hours to really develop and utilize an hour's worth of first person research.

Just my rant,

XOXOXO

[ElizabethClark]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Jim, my comments were absolutely not directed at yours--sorry, I read a few other comments in the "we're all farbs" vein in the thread, and they caught me at a cranky moment.

Absolutely, military guys need to have the drill and material culture down WELL in order to do a good impression. My comments were aimed at those who are wanting to know "how to do first person"--but aren't willing to read about anything outside the military--you're not in that category. :)

[JimConley]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Elizabeth,
Thank you for clarifying. After reading your comments, it did seem unlike what you typically contribute to discussions.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

I feel, for me personally, material culture, military culture and knowledge of the civilian side of things in the period really fleshes-out the world and my further understanding of what I see within my own mind from readings, museums and discussions. It's all the fun of discovery and first person at events can help us do that if we do it as correct, educated and realistic as we are able to do it with our own and collective research.

Civilian and military... Can't have one without the other, can we?

All the best... Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

My rebuttal-

I'm going right out to the sinks and create a "two legged stool" and leave my thoughts!

Greg Starbuck

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

My rebuttal-

I'm going right out to the sinks and create a "two legged stool" and leave my thoughts!

Greg Starbuck

Great addition to the subject, thanks for sharing...

I guess what you're saying is that the following element of the Campaigner Manifesto is crap and needs to be left in the sinks...

16. I employ first-person living history techniques whenever appropriate. I take great care to avoid behavior, language, and comments that might disrupt accurate living history activities. I strive to attain a mental attitude appropriate to the person I portray when in character.

So do we just remove it and proceed merrily down the path with materials and methods being "good enough"...

Granted this subject has been discussed before, but instead do you think this thread is crap? Frankly there are dozens of threads on the AC that would meet that criteria, but no equal derision applied to them. I think this is one of the better discussion concering something that most of our events lack, an honest and consistent attempt at first person interaction and a minimization of modern intrusion in the form of inappropriate discussions.

In my mental picture, I'm still a fresh fish to this endeavor still so please correct me if my vision is faulty...

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Hallo!

Across the broad spectrum of reenacting and living history- when one is one of the Blind Men and the Elephant, no one's vision is faulty.

Back to February Thaw flooding issues....

Curt

[Hank Trent]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Great addition to the subject, thanks for sharing...

I guess what you're saying is that the following element of the Campaigner Manifesto is crap and needs to be left in the sinks...

Way back on page two of this thread, I wrote:

Trying to get campaigners to improve in first person is like trying to get mainstreamers to go on campaign. Some will reminisce about the few times they did it and liked it, but go right back to their normal way at the first chance, some will have all kinds of excuses why it'll never work, some will become hostile, some will say it doesn't matter, some will promise to do it and then weasel out, and so forth.

I still think it holds true. :D

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Granted this subject has been discussed before, but instead do you think this thread is crap?

I agree with Greg Starbuck! This thread is crap! I've only read a few decent posts that make sense. I can only imagine how confused new people are getting after reading.

We should all research and study as much as we can of our mid19th century history in order to develop a better understanding of what we do as reenactors. This is a GIVEN! Especially being so called "authentics."

What we need to do is, define what first person really means in our authentic hobby. Sure, authentics are going to reenact how they want
which is fine, but what does it really mean for the rest of us?

I'm going to be honest, while reading this thread, I see mostly civilians and newbies basically defining first person as "character based" for all of us, new and old, who apparently have no idea. Thanks, but no thanks.

First person in the mind of this old authentic, is something different.

I haven't done an event in a while, but when I started becoming authentic back in the early 90's first person USUALLY meant something different. It wasn't based on certain "characters", but based on speech, and knowing your roles instead. If someone does a great job speaking like he lived in the 19 century with the correct slang words, that's all I really need.

For all you newbies who are confused after reading this thread and want some better answers, I would say take my advice. The better events listed here on the AC as well as in private, are not character based, and hopefully never become a requirement. (Not including civilians)

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Hank,

You are absolutely right. I'll look forward to the next time I get to sit down at a table or walk down a lane with you.

For some others... have a great time rehashing what is or isn't a Commutation Jacket or arguing who's reproduction shelter half is in that grainy picture. I know better which events and individuals to stay away from. Well I don't have to worry about events because I doubt I'll see any of those sorts getting dirty.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Rather than have the usual Keyboard Kampaigners post the same tired ass quips about mush and slosh, maybe it's time for those actually active in this wing of the hobby to pony up.

I agree. I would rather folks get out to some events several times a year and not just sit behind their computer. Yes, I post too, but at least I attend some events each year. We can argue about what needs to be fixed, but unless everyone gets their arse out into the field, whats the point?

Jim Butler

[Hank Trent]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

The better events listed here on the AC as well as in private, are not character based, and hopefully never become a requirement. (Not including civilians)

Since you said you haven't been to a better event in a while, you might want to get out to a few of them before telling us what they're like.

But honestly, I really don't think there's any kind of reenacting that's not character based, if by that you mean portraying a person different from oneself.

Unless the reenactors portraying Yankees actually want to kill southerners, and the reenactors portraying Confederates are really wanting to kill yankees, then everyone--even at farbfests--is portraying a person with motivation different from his own, at least when he pulls the trigger during the battle.

So it's not a question of if reenactors are trying to emulate people from the past during events, it's a question of how consistently, how accurately, how detailed, and how well.

I haven't done an event in a while, but when I started becoming authentic back in the early 90's first person USUALLY meant something different. It wasn't based on certain "characters", but based on speech, and knowing your roles instead. If someone does a great job speaking like he lived in the 19 century with the correct slang words, that's all I really need.

So what's the difference? If a reenactor tries to duplicate the way a 19th century person spoke, including his mindset, morals, outlook, knowledge, etc. as reflected in what he says, how does that differ from accurately portraying a "character" (i.e. a typical fictional or real person) from the past?

Otherwise, if it's limited to slang and speech patterns alone, we'd be hearing, "Say, Joshua, don't Emmit there have a bully CD player in his truck?" and I hope that's not what you mean.

Hank Trent
(who remembers this kind of conversation with reenactors back in the '90s who said they'd quit the hobby if they were ever required to leave their wall tents and coolers at home)
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

I love ya'll like brothers very much... ya'll know this...

BUT... horse... beaten... dead... been dead... beaten again... still dead.:p

Conversation was good... it's a good topic to revive every once-in-awhile and try to rethink amongst the authentic community's current opinion.

Hovever, I feel this conversation has done played-out, Festus.

All the best to every one of you! -Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

I think folks are yelling at each other from opposite ends of the same (very small) room.

Some "do" first person by taking on a name other than their own, developing an entire "backstory", complete with details about family and cultural orgins, family history, social status, detailed local history, knowledge of their "character's" trade, and on and on. This is great! I'm really glad that people get so far into the details. If no one did, then those details would probably be lost to time. This is what I think Aaron is referring to as "character based" first person.

What some/most folks do (myself included) is to develop only as much "backstory" as might actually be useful. The rest is general knowledge of the period, which may include speach patterns, social standing, music, and some other details. While not as in-depth as "character based" first person, mastering this is no small job either!

It takes all kinds, folks! I know guys who are really into 19th Century ag and I value them because they give me the knowledge about what should be in my haversack and what might be foraged. I appreciate the musicians who have taught me about songs and music and how it should sound. I dig firearms and uniforms. While I agree that we should all have a common base-level of first person skill, I feel that, just because some folks focus on these other details, rather than an in-depth "first-personna", doesn't mean we're sitting on a two legged stool. The reverse is true, as well.

In the end, it takes a community of folks with a variety of interests to share their knowledge for the benefit of the group. If we all focused on the same things, we'd all have the same level of ignorance about everything else. I'm grateful for folks like Jeff Clagg, Neill Rose, CJ Daley, Jim Ruley, Curt Schmidt, Craig Barry, Bill Osbourne, Jerry Stiles, Nick Medich, Kevin Caddell, CJ Roberts, Goeff Walden, Brian Merrick, John Stillwagon, Jason Wickersty, Marc Hermann, Brian Koenig, David Klinestiver, and dozens-upon-dozens of others (published authors or not) who have contributed to my knowledge of the Civil War, the men who fought it, the gear and clothing they used, and what their lives were like before, during, and after the war. Without them, I would still be a farb in a zippered coat blasting away with a 3/4-scale cannon.

Egad, people! Step back and get a little perspective!!

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Re: The Two-Legged Stool???

Listen, I know I haven't been around and it drives me nuts more than anything, trust me. (Work thing). I just wanted to be honest up front about my status, that's all. I had a feeling before I posted that I would catch some heat for adding to the discussion without coming around. Nicely played fellas! However I still feel I'm giving good information for those who want to listen.

I'm basically trying to add to the discussion with different viewpoints. I'm speaking from what I learned, and what I practice when I can. Of course you can say, what's the difference on this view or that view compared to mine. This is why this topic gets discussed quarterly like Charles, was saying.

What I say remains true for many people out there. How do I know? Because I'm not that far behind...;)

I'll see you around this year though.... Bummers will be a nice way to end the year!