Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Good evening all,

I had a thought that I'd be interested in hearing from others on:


In doing my own personal research, I've come across a number of incidents pertaining to the collection and safe keeping of items. I'm talking about items that people 'Way back when' collected and thought would become valuable in the future.

For example, one of the most prevalent items are signatures from notable generals. Attached is one of Maj. Gen. Thomas L. Crittenden, which reads, "T L Crittenden, Maj. Genl. U S Vols". This one was on eBay and I've seen a good many of these (though, not particularly Crittenden) being sold.

Take two cases I came across in the "Notes of Z. Lee Gilmer" of the 19th Virginia Volunteer Infantry. He writes,

"He [a slave, Tarlton] meant to take a Yankee skull home to his wife for a soap goat; he sent her a pistol found on the bloody field of Bull Run instead."

"The night previous to their [2 Wheat's Tigers at Centreville, Va.] being shot, 300 men guarded them. When they were dead, thousands of men rushed to the stakes to get a chip as a memento and in a little while the stake was cut away."

OR, let's not forget the fabled flag Ellsworth tore down from the Marshall House Inn and was photographed in with "Avenger" Francis E. Brownell.


Has anyone come across more examples of items being collected and saved during the war??

I just find it interesting since as a present-day antiquer/reenactor/historian, I find myself all too often buying original artifacts.

PS: What the heck's a soap goat? Anyone know? I'm pretty certain that's how I transcribed it. Variations accepted.

[rogue]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

The cover article of the most recent North-South Traders Civil War deals with wartime souvenir hunting. Captain John DeMeritt of the 29th Wisconsin collected a large chest of interesting items which were recently sold at auction in North Carolina. A photo of the collection is on the N-STCW website.
S.Sullivan

[Bill]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

If you take notice, a good many of the surviving Gardner Pattern canteens were taken home as souvenirs by Federal soldiers. You will often see the name of the Confederate, who was issued the canteen on one side and the name of the Yankee, who took it home, on the other.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

You see this all over--buttons, locks of hair, pieces of things. Harpers Ferry was notorious for trafficking in John Brown artifacts. In the reading for Burkittsville (South Mountain) I recall that there was a problem with civilians going out after the battle and taking souvenirs from the battlefield and bodies.

I don't know that the motivation was always monetary, with a hope that the items would rise in value. I mean, yes, it was very monetary for the sellers, especially the sellers of fake items, but for the buyers and collectors, I get the impression it was just as often for truly momento motives, as a way of feeling connected to a unique occasion, of remembering what happened, and so forth.

On the "soap goat" question, I suspect it may be "soap boat," a soap dish or soap holder, like the phrase gravy boat.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

One wonders how many artifacts taken home were later discarded by the missus, used by the kids to play soldier, thrown out after the death of the soldier, etc. People don't realize the value (not necessarily the dollar value) of what they have until it's too late.

Case in point: When I was a young kid someone gave me a WWI German pickelhaub. I was delighted to play the part of a German, and eventually the helmet fell apart and was tossed. :cry_smile

Ron Myzie

[Jimmayo]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

I don't think value is in the mind of the collector when things were sent home. Soldiers always were and still are souvenir hunters (although Uncle Sam makes it harder to send things back now). What is sent home is more of a memento to the sender or owner than an investment.

My case in point. I had access to numerous VC flags during my time in SEA. What did I send home??? Some MPC notes and a survival knife. What a DA I was. Those flags are worth a fortune now and we were using them for wall drapes.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

I don't think value is in the mind of the collector when things were sent home. What is sent home is more of a memento to the sender or owner than an investment.

Mr. Mayo,

Yes, thank you for clarifying my original point of conversation. By "valuable" I'm not referring to a monetary value, but rather a "Hey, this has meaning to me and it will be a great conversational piece later on" item. My examples of the signatures and woop chip are exactly what I'm asking about.

[tomarch]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

One wonders how many artifacts taken home were later discarded by the missus, used by the kids to play soldier, thrown out after the death of the soldier, etc. People don't realize the value (not necessarily the dollar value) of what they have until it's too late.

Case in point: When I was a young kid someone gave me a WWI German pickelhaub. I was delighted to play the part of a German, and eventually the helmet fell apart and was tossed. :cry_smile

Ron Myzie

Ditto on that...A client of mine showed me something he found in Wis. as a kid in the middle of a field.... It was a cast brass handel/hilt of a "short sword" with a cast "CSN" on the crossguard...I've never heard or seen the like, I just wish he'd of found the whole sword

[J. Donaldson]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

While doing research this week, I came across an interesting diary entry which deals with taking souvenirs while on the March to the Sea. Diary entry is from W. B. Emmons, 34th Illinois, Company A Diary, http://digital.lib.uiowa.edu/cdm4/do...TR=1688&REC=19 It also has an interesting discourse on the nature of the war from both the soldiers point of view as well as the civilian point of view.

November 30, 1864
“the weather is lovely like the very choicest days of late April and early May in Illinois we spoil ourselves (almost) on perscimmons which are now ripe as they have had a dozen frosts to sweeten them. I went through the Town of Lousiville saw in a negro house several books that our straggling soldiers had handled as they pleased one of them Milton’s Paradice”

November 30 page 2
“I took to the old lady that seemed to be mistress of the premises I found her in one of the negro houses parching corn there was two woman slaves in the room with the old dame. I told the old lady that as our soldiers were helping themselves to any thing that they wanted on her grounds that I wanted the book Milton but would not take it without her free consent. She gave it to me. She told me that our men had taken her set of china dishes that had been in the family for over 60 years. She said she wished we would all go home and let them alone. Well I said you know the war is for the restoration of the Union and until that is accomplished it will go on. She said that there could never be such union as there used to be. I thought there could. She then came down on our government. Oh I replied we have a better government now than we had when the South went out of the Union. the old lady sighed and said, Well it may suit you better but it would never suit us! I said the war will soon be over and all will be well. she said (despondingly) that it could not be over till all the Southern men were killed and crippled up. she went on parch-

November 30 page 3
“ing corn poor Old Saul. She had been wealthy by all appearances but now the fortune of war forces her to parch corn. I suppose our straggling soldiers had taken all the provisions from her. it is outrageous and against Gen Shermans orders but it is an evil that can hardly be stopped even by our Gen for we are living off the country. we do not draw enough from our Quartermasters to keep us going and if we do not do some private foraging we would soon be reduced to starvation. But there are hundreds of men in the Army that because they have a chance to look about for something to eat go it like a pack of thieves take money! watches! silver ware! finery! silk dresses! ribbons! womans and childrens clothing, insult white women! and go far beyond the bounds of human decency.”

There is another incident about a week later where Mr. Emmons runs into a burning plantation house in order to take any books he can find.

[Edwin Carl Erwin]

Goat's Milk Soap

What the heck's a soap goat?

Jason,

There's a recipe for goats milk soap on The Soap Goat Soap Shop website: www.thesoapgoat.com/nrecipes3.html.

The chemistry of the rejuvenating effects of goat milk, readily absorbed through the skin, are described at: www.getyourgoatsoap.com/.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

I've been meaning to post a couple other examples of souvenir-collecting located at Appomattox Court House National Historical Park, Va.

On display were small shards of the apple tree Lt. Col. Orville E. Babcock found Lee resting under before he delivered Grant's request to find a meeting place and discuss the army's surrender. I wish I could recall if these were taken during the war or not.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the battlefield like I was, the tree was located near the Appomattox River alongside the Richmond-Lynchburg stagecoach road. (see attachment)

Also, on display was a small piece of the caisson used to pull the funeral casket of Jefferson Davis. My photo was a little too blurry to decipher, but this artifact was at Appomattox because the man who cut it was a Confederate veteran of Appomattox Courthouse. This was obviously a post-war souvenir.

I hope someone else can relate to my fascination to this period process,

[Parault]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

Also, on display was a small piece of the caisson used to pull the funeral casket of Jefferson Davis. My photo was a little too blurry to decipher, but this artifact was at Appomattox because the man who cut it was a Confederate veteran of Appomattox Courthouse. This was obviously a post-war souvenir.

I wonder if the orginal caisson at Beauvoir that was in the library building survive? If not, this might be the only remaining article.

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

Being that today marks the end of the war, I found this other Appomattox artifact on the National Park Service's website.

"Theodore Lyman of General Meade's staff collected this centipede while at Appomattox in April 1865. Lyman, a student of Natural History was fourth in the class of 1855 at Harvard University. *Centipede image courtesy of Harvard University."

[PogueMahone]

Re: Thinking Ahead, Memorabilia and Souvenirs

Not having the information handy, I recall that the Presbyterian Church in College Grove, TN, established 1854(?), was visited by Federal cavalry one day (probably an Ohio unit) and among other things, one of them took the bible used on the altar. It was very ornate, large and inscribed to the church. About 20 years after the war, his son brought it back to the church, saying it was one of his father's dying wishes as he'd always felt guilty about stealing a bible. There is no longer a Presbyterian church in the town, so I have no idea where the artifact ended up.