Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

[SCTiger]

With the rise of campaigner adjuncts and some tactical events, I have heard too many people state their enthusiasm for attending an event primarily because someone charismatic or "cool" personality will be in attendance. "Hey did you here that ________ was going to be there? I need to sign up for that!"

Events should not be focused on "who's attending" and instead more focused on which events present history accurately, have the best organization, support preservation and promote the campaigner/LH movement.

Too often in the the adjunct announcements, a well known personality, usually someone with thousands of online posts and very little field time, will announce his attendance to some random mainstream event and then insist that his fraternity brothers follow him to the party and drive off the highway of historical truth and into a ravine of farbdom.

The adjunct pied piper will make a large and loud, multi-forum announcement that he has now deemed this event worthy of our attendance, then insists on a legion of followers and proceeds to make grandiose statements about seeking common ground, setting the example or he issues forth a Nostradamus like prophecy that the future of reenacting is doomed without your participation. It's total garbage. Designed to illicit a false, guilt ridden emotion, that you are against supporting "large" events or the future of the hobby.

Of course it's "his" event and real history becomes wallpaper. There is also too often NOTHING planned after everyone has arrived.

The personality game distracts from the true purpose of this hobby and that is to present history as accurately as possible and to support quality events. Anything sponsored by ONE dude, should not be on your calendar.

Each unit needs to create a good criteria for attending events, to include adjuncts. Ask critical questions like: "What are the scenarios and activities?" "Who is the support/sponsor?" "Will this experience add to my knowledge and skills?" "How will this event help my understanding of the historical event?" If the adjunct (or any event) has satisfied your selection criteria, then you have a very good reason to attend.

Basing your selection on a charismatic personality or because it's the "cool thing" to do, is a phony motivation for supporting any event. It's one reason that first person is rare and that many events turn into a giant social gathering. The primary purpose for attending ought to be the experience first and to recreate a historical atmosphere. Social needs and recognition would take a back seat.

If we prioritize the event standards over the "cult of personality" we can still have a good time, but we would have done something right and served the real needs of the living historian.

[boreguard]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Some good points you make.

[Pat.Lewis]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

You always do have a way of writing posts to which I can only echo, "Amen."

Your questions, "Will this experience add to my knowledge and skills?" and "How will this event help my understanding of the historical event?" are among the most important we can ask about any situation, particularly when we pride ourselves on being a medium for teaching outside (and sometimes inside) the classroom.
How will your (rhetorical) next event allow you to better interpret the Civil War era to the public when next you interact with them?

[Jubilo]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

dear Sir,
In the words of Bob Dylan : "Don't follow leaders, watch your parking meters." I fear you do not recognize human nature. "Who's going " is always of more imnportance than "what actually happened at a battle site." People do follow leaders ( Alexander, Caesar ,Napoleon, Hitler, Medich , Huston, Greene , Craddock, Shackleford, Rambo, Anders, Neal, et.al.). In my experience whether an event will follow an historical scenario is an afterthought to most living historians/reenactors regardless of credibility. Everyone has their own adgenda and only historians with seek out the history. I applaud your sentiments but fear they are not "practicable."
all for the old flag,
David Corbett

[coastaltrash]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Greg,
I think the larger problem with "campaigners" now is that many of us seem to continue to walk down our high and mighty path, and often times forget where we came from as hobbyists. Several years back, I kept a picture of me and my Dad at Selma 2001, and then a picture of me and my Dad at a local event in 2006. Why? Well first, its a picture of me and my Dad, plus folded into that is that it was at Selma 2001 that Dennis Conklin came up to me and started talking to me, not brow beating me, about doing this whole campaigner thing. It fit what I wanted to do. This doesn't fit what others want to do. Its like the arguement among car guys- Chevy vs Ford, or the golf guys, Ping vs Titleist. Where you go and what you wear doesn't make you a good hobbyist, in fact there are guys that have attended events I put on, let alone attended, that aren't worth the wool their uniform is made of, and showed it by hauling ass early when the weather got rough. In case you didn't know, and in the memory of The Heaf- weather at my events gets biblical when you get there.

I've been to some good adjuncts, I've hosted some good adjuncts. I've been to good and bad as far as both events are concerned. I've learned from leaders like Dennis Neal, who I am proud to say served as my Lt along with Craddock at Outpost III. Dennis and I also spent the last several years putting out two groups together in the field, hosting COI's, teaching a whole lot of young guys how to do this right, and having fun along the way. Along this path have been NPS living histories of the hardest degree, mainstream events that were better than some quality stuff because of what we made out of it. This hobby is what you put into it, and what the individual hobbyist takes out of it. Keep marching forward with the good posts, but never forget the mistakes you've made along the way that brought you to the current path you're on now.

[MD_Independent]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Monsieur Deese,
I agree with the sentiments you've expressed, but I have one problem with the presentation. Whenever my fiancée and I have an argument, or I hear someone complaining about this or that, my mind automatically goes to finding a solution to the problem without becoming entangled in rhetoric that goes no where.

The rhetoric is good for what it is, but could you propose a solution? I can. It won't be liked, but I don't really care. The recent abuse of the 'adjunct' section, using it like a private messaging service, useless "I'm coming posts"(of which I'm guilty of a recent one), and the like, can be resolved by limiting 'adjuncts' to one anouncement post, or one post per month/week/whatever, that would include the organizers contact info, unit organizing said 'adjunct', impression, purpose behind said 'adjunct', and any other useful tidbits. The organizer of said 'adjunct' can be contacted by those interested in attending, and said organizer can make announcements and such via private emails and the like.

This would keep the adjuncts in their proper secondary place in the event folders for those of us who have little or no interest in them. On the flip side, the organizer of said 'adjunct' would be free to spend his time making the effort better as opposed to defending it from criticism on this forum or constantly hyping and re-hyping it. Just a thought.

Bill Birney
CRs

[DougCooper]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Well said David C. and Bill B.

Greg - Is this a big problem?

I think a lot of us grade an event based on one main criteria - how well the chain of command, from leaders through followers, create an authentic CW military environment. Most of us know the history - we want to feel the environment. It requires less compromise if done right...and we know it when we see it.

I have never attended a mainstream adjunct lead by the type of personality you speak of, thank goodness. I HAVE attended a few events where the vision and historical concept were authentic (or EBUFU if you will), but the "leaders" failed at job one. Talk about failed expectations...but it only takes one or two of those to make one smart.

There are some folks (Pied Piper) who have created cults of personality (mice) that will follow them to bad events, and have a bad time...but again, I wonder how big a problem this is...or whether we need to worry about it. Can't imagine that takes more than one time to get smart, unless those folks just don't care, which of course is the point of your post, I think.

So how do we fix this problem? Is it ruining attendance at the real deal events?

There are a number of leaders in this hobby who really can create a silk purse out of a sow's ear...in that portion of an event they can control. They get my support, while I screen the rest of the event out as "CW wallpaper" in the words of Patrick Reardon.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Greg:

How about some specifics? Why not just come out and say what you mean to say instead of beating around the bush? To put something like this out there often creates arguments with shadows and no conclusion except to rile people up. I agree with Bill's post. What is your proposal? I'd really like to hear it.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Hallo!

I would jump on that bandwagon...

"Personalities versus Purpose" as a statement that woul dappear at first glance to already be biased against the personality side of the conflict (as already expressed through the use of "versus.")

IMHO...

This is someone running with a double-edged sword up and down a two lane street.

There are "personalities" among us whose demonstrated historical knowledge/leadership/organizational/logistical/networking/communication/
coalition building skills and track records can be part and parcel of quality events.
Just as the opposite.

There are also "personalities" in the land who have different and differing personal and/or unit agendas that are more about themselves and their units/associations, or segment/community in the Hobby than "purpose" or function-based events.

And then there are the "personalities' with diagnosed and undiagnosed personality disorders, deficits, and issues who have the own personal internal problems that get added to these dynamics and elevated by the power of the WWW.

IMHO, still...

The grandest and most noblest aspirations and expectations can be quickly ground to a nub and run down when the "personalities" are not true leaders with vision and abilities, OR when the event "purpose" is either above their pay grade and skill sets or the "purpose" of the event is subordinate to their personal or group agendae.

What might this "proposal" be?

How does even the best of adjunct creation, structure, and execution prevail over so-called Mainstream or Farb event culture realities?

Curt
Which end of the telescope to look through Mess

[btfire]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Here is a solution: Allow adjuncts which are held only on orignial ground. Allow adjuncts which present an authentic scenario based on the historical event. All adjuncts which support a preservation effort. Allow adjuncts which are formed by people who actually support the c/p/h community. Any adjunct which does not meet the above expectations cannot, and should not, be listed on a forum which claims to be "above mainstream," which is what the AC used to be...

[boreguard]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Wow if you have a problem with an adjunct don't read the darn thing ! I don't usually buy a paper unless I'm going to read it, otherwise what do I care what the headline says...or rather what is on page 2 B ?

Come on guys really, are the problems Greg outlined a "cancer" to the hobby ? No. Is there a threat to you, your mess, or your unit? No. It's interesting how the hobby seems to suffer by the diagnosis of countless opinions, yet to get up and get out of the chair to put your hand to plow draws the same worthless criticisims. At least one is trying, the other is...just opinions.

Greg makes some points worth noting, and I have to admit that I've thought the same or similar in the past. Yet to "jump on the bandwagon" and it accumlate numerous post to this thread isn't a crime no more than the conversation that might ensue a post on an adjunct event. The rules governing an adjunct post are clear, the additional post aren't mandatory reading. Should we limit the post on an AAR ? I think not, but they're no more or less helpful to an event that's already "history". I make it a choice to read them or not.

Put the paper down if you don't want to read it.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

I think the problem that requires a solution is re-aligning the focus of the cph community upon supporting events which in and of themselves set a standard above average and which require effort on the part of the participant.

At one time, the farbism rule applied to events announcements here on the AC. If the event wasn't going to have and enforce standards, it couldn't be promoted here. Plain and simple. That eliminated anything mainstream or below. When Szabo's experienced a long-term crash, many of the mainstreamers came here to get their internet CW fix. As a result, we have a great number of fence-sitters and mainstreamers who water here frequently. The questions have gotten more absurd, the answers have become less researched and more anecdotal and the event announcements have become a "misconfiguration of orderly chaos".

We all know that cph guys have attended and do attend events of all types and across the spectrum of authenticity. No news headlines there. But it used to be the norm for those events to be discussed via email or phone, lest someone find out everyone went to Selma or Resaca. The only events they'd admit to publicly were the ones the AC promoted. (And, whether you agree or not, an event listed on the AC appears to have the AC endorsement, regardless of the farb level.) Pretty soon, it became acceptable to drink in public, er, announce adjuncts on the AC. Currently we have fellows that have attended events announced on the AC that have never been to EBUFU or any other quality event. Just count the number of posts of folks that never met Charles Heath!!!

For some of us, it is frustrating. Especially when someone spends countless hours researching some historical moment, works with a landowner or NPS site to arrange land use, puts together game plans A, B, and C, announces the event, promotes the event ... only to see that whole investment in their child be shat upon by some upstart fence-sitting wannabee campaigner who plops an adjunct directly upon or on the next weekend of said EBUFU event. Said adjunct has no guidelines, no real plans to do anything of historic value, it just has a few guys with pretty good kits going and they wanted to invite others to join them.

Imagine standing in line at your high school graduation and being pulled out as you approach the podium and being told you don't have enough credits. Anger, disappointment, rage, frustration, shock ... yeah, that is the way the EBUFU planner feels when some half-assed crap drops on his head.

In some cases, there have been situations where organizations have decided to attend some mainstream event and have announced that effort. Names come into play and I think this is where Greg picks up the "cult of personality" argument. There is some validity in that argument and we should ask the recognized leaders in this hobby to protect their reputation and name by not so freely associating it with lesser events.

And the problem is larger than just the event announcements on the AC. It is the discussions that occur here. This used to be the place to get information. Now, not so much. Sometimes I want to tell people to get a room, I don't want to watch them make out electronically. This isn't Facebook, but it gets treated like it. It isn't AIM, but it gets treated like it. Some of the posts hold no value whatsoever. "Sign me up!" Dude, really, do you think we care? Are you so desperate to be included that you must be identified with the event? You want to show support for the event? Send the guy an email or PM and let him know. He'll get the same message, trust me. "LOL!" I swear to God, if I could find the person that invented that, I'd strangle them with my bare hands. Posting it here should be automatic banishment for life.

I don't know how most come here and keep up with new threads, but I log in and hit "New Posts" in the toolbar above. If I am watching a thread because the discussion is interesting, the topic is something I want to learn about, the event is one I'm planning to attend or it is important news to the reenacting community, I don't want to click on the "last page" and find drivel.

There have been a lot of posts in recent months about "common ground" and "compromise". It is ignorance and naivete' to think the mainstream and the EBUFU crowds are ever going to merge into one happy family. That notion needs to go the way of the Dodo Bird. Just give it up already, it ain't gonna happen.

Of late the question has been asked "How can you call yourself a campaigner if you've never campaigned?" There is a lot of conjecture in what "campaigning" means in the hobby. It means different things to different people. For those that have marched the backroads and piney forests in Louisiana at Red River, Banks' Grand Retreat and ITPW, we believe that have we have tasted the campaigner life. We have lived on issued rations, from our haversacks and knapsacks, carried all that we own, for miles and miles and days and days. We went from Point A to Point B. We got so far from the rest of the world, cell phones didn't work and the ambulance had rotors. We have pride that we did something different. We suffered the rain, the heat, the cold, the indifferent food, the creek water, the sore body, the blistered feet. We've marched in a column so much we became accustomed to its pace.

So naturally when someone calls themself a campaigner but has never marched further than the distance from the parking lot to the camp, we bristle. Just as having good gear does not make one authentic, wearing it like you've seen in photos doesn't make you a campaigner. Sleeping without a tent certainly doesn't make you a campaigner. To lay claim to the title, you have to have experienced it. At least, that is what it means to me. Your mileage may vary. (There is a pun there, if you think about it.)

(Disclaimer: I am talking about the hobby of reenacting. Anyone who wishes to challenge my explanations with their modern military experience needs to seperate reenacting from the modern. I acknowledge your service and thank you for it, but the comparison is apples and oranges for this conversation.)

I think the bottom line is this: There are some people who would like to see the AC become less user-friendly and a little more self-conscious. Posting on the forums should be a privilege and an honor. Lately, it seems to be a recreational activity.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Hallo!

"This folder is for mainstream events with at least a company sized C/P/H element attending in 2009. Any events that do not have an authentic adjunct will be deleted by the Moderators. These are NOT EBUFU events."

IMHO...

It is still a legitimate topic for discussion whether on one side of the coin or fence, or bandwagon for that matter.

The "rules" governing "adjuncts" are abundantly "clear:"

1. Mainstream events with at least a company sized C/P/H element attending...

2. Any events that do not have an authentic adjunct will be deleted by the Moderators.

3. These are NOT EBUFU events.

Some of the issues raised about adjuncts lie with self-declaration and the inability or lack of moderators to certify or verify that "a company sized C/P/H element" is attending.
Define "company size?" 1? 3? 5? 10? 30? 100?
Define "C/P/H element?" (I am aware of a number of PM folks self-declaring themselves as a "C/P/H element.)

I am also aware of complaints from lads reading the AC Forum's adjunct folder, and attending so-called F and M events expecting a company sized C/P/H element" of 10, 20, or 30 C/P/H lads to find 1, 3, or 5.

The second group of complaints lies with expectations of something C/P/Hishly "different" or "above M" only to find it not so, or that the C/P/H element is so small, so misunderstood, so ill-used or unappreciated (if not resented) by the event hosts and powers-that-be that the "element" is forced to "revert" back to so-called F or M life or leave with failed expectations (that are implied but rarely, nover, ever, stated.)

IMHO still...

Seeing an "adjunct" carried on the AC Forum implies, if not certifies, that that event has a "company sized C/P/H element" in numbers, in attendance, and somehow/someway incoporated and melded/merged into the Mainstream command and event schedule activities.

But when Captain Joe Socioemotive leader announces that he is taking a "company sized C/P/H element" to the Spring Flower and Pioneer Walk Craft Show Civil War Reenactment at Dog & Pony Springs Park- seeing that announcement listed on the AC Forum starts "expectations" churning in lads' minds as meaning certain things.

And, IMHO still...

The single most cause of unhappiness, politics, friction, strife, conflict, ill-behavior, and acting-out is not standards, but failed expectations.


Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Who has gone to Mainstream events with a 2, 3, 5 man C/P/H adjunct but would never put it up on the AC Forum Mess

[SCTiger]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

I just got back tonight and i want to make a specific response and tidy up my late night post, so other won't get offended, too much.

Their are "well known" personalities like Eric Tipton, Pat Landrum, who are well known for hard work, producing great events and if everyone likes you, that's no crime. I will always support people like that and your events. You are also pro-history versus party time/Disney with Black Powder.

The solution is not external but, a cultural internal mindset, where the compass is more oriented again toward history and less toward the all-to0-powerful social needs.

The one reason we can't get huge numbers of participants from the mainstream, is mainly the "separation anxiety" they would suffer if they spent one centavo on a real time, living history/campaigner event. Participating in one c/p/h event would mean missing some mainstream event; the beer & ball segments and the family bbq picnic around the fire. Few campaigner events has enough draw to break that social need to bond, unless one of the mainstream popular boys is selling it. We won't go to your campaigner events, but please come back to the wooden lounge chair.

Can we have battle without the obligatory party? Sure we can and I love to see it.
Did the Confederates or the Federals hold a grand ball at the end of a battle? Not that I remember. but I am sure that one jack a** will dredge up such an example and cast it over the whole wide, wide, world of reenacting.

Do wee need to introduce large numbers of campaigners back into such an environment without a plan or a historical focus? No. Does the leader of the adjunct have an obligation to attend some c/p/h events before issuing the call for an adjunct. I believe he/she does, that means more than one every five years. At least one c/p/h per adjunct. That's as fair as it gets.

In`conclusion:

Adjunct organizers need to have a full plan for the weekend and reciprocate with c/p/h events, before calling out for campaigners. Yes Jody, we can have adjuncts.

Any event should have a historical value that helps campaigners hone their skills and enriches their experience.

Attend events because you are a historian first; and look less at "who's" attending and more at the event standards and background history. Don't go because you have to be seen there.

I am sorry if I did not direct this at any single person, it's really geared toward an epidemic, if you took offense don't attack me, attack the ideas. Don't try to please everyone. Tell me why those three ideas are wrong.

[btfire]

Re: Personality vs. Purpose: Event Criteria

Worthless post #37 1/2. Amen, brother...