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  • P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

    If you asked a dozen acknowledged P/C/H units what they thought about attending mainstream events you'd probably get a dozen different answers. Some see it as destructive to the P/C/H movement; some see it as helpful; some just don't see it at all.

    The GHTI has historically attended 1 or 2 mainstream events every year. Our mission has been specific at every one of those events - put our best foot foward, participate to the fullest and let the mainstreamers see for themselves what the GHTI is all about.

    Recently I was asked why we were attending a particular mainstream event and I answered that question in a letter which may be going into the newsletter of the host unit for that mainstream event.

    I thought I'd share that letter with you all and see what kind of discussion it might generate. This is not a promotion of mainstream events nor is it a defense of our decision to attend them periodically. The GHTI believes some good can come from our attendence... it works for us, with our unit and in our area of the country. It probably doesn't work for everybody.

    Here's that letter:

    Recently I was asked why my unit, George Henry Thomas' Invincibles (the
    GHTI), was planning to attend some mainstream events in 2004. When I
    explained myself, the listener seemed surprised by the answers and asked if
    I could write them down for others to see. This is my written reply.

    Reader, we're aware that there are stereotypes at work and that mainstream
    groups/commanders might be unsure about our attendance at their events. I'd
    like you to understand that the GHTI has a history of attending mainstream
    events - not to show-off or make trouble but to fully participate. You may
    have seen elements of the GHTI in recent years at various events such as
    Jackson, Hastings, Fort Wayne, Hartford City and this year Billie Creek. We
    don't attend every one of those events every year but we do try to get
    around. When we anticipate enough fellows for a company we'll normally
    contact the leadership of the event in advance to let them know we plan to
    attend and that it's our intent to cooperate fully.

    Secondly, we're not there to make waves. You won't see us standing toe to
    toe with field commanders arguing the way they dress, the way they drill or
    the way they perform on the battlefield. Quite simply, we believe that when
    an officer takes the field he is in charge and his chain of command needs to
    be kept in-tact and unchallenged. I often tell the men of the GHTI that even
    if your officer is wrong, he's right. There's a place to point out
    grievances or inconsistencies but that place is not on the drill field.

    Third, we don't attend mainstream events to snap farb-photos or to sit off
    in the distance ridiculing others. When men in the mainstream decide to
    pursue a more progressive/hardcore impression - they often times feel the
    need to distance or separate themselves from their mainstream roots. These
    men, fresh from the mainstream, will often sit in the weeds and toss insults
    and aspersions upon groups that not long ago, held their respect. I submit
    that these fellows aren't hardcores at all... and if you're garnering your
    impressions of hardcores from them, you're not getting an accurate and true
    reflection of who we really are.

    Fourthly, we don't presume to have all the answers. We feel like we can
    learn from mainstream groups just as mainstream groups might be able to
    learn from us. Recently Mark Mason of the GHTI regaled us all in regard to a
    drill conducted by the Cumberland Guard at Hartford City last October. Mark
    was very impressed with the manual of arms as taught and executed by the
    guard and felt we in the GHTI could learn much from that exercise.

    Finally, we're not attending your events to recruit your membership. Many
    would look for an ulterior motive where none exists. We're attending to
    enjoy ourselves just as you are. We're hoping by supporting your events,
    mainstream groups will understand that we are there to help and if asked -
    we'll gladly extend our hand to share.

    When we attend a mainstream event, we expect it to be a mainstream event...
    we don't fashion unrealistic expectations for ourselves and then decry
    feigned outrage when those unrealistic expectations are not met. We don't
    expect you and your events to be perfect. We hope that if you attend an
    event that we promote that you'll give us that same allowance.

    We do however expect events to be what they say they are - a certain amount
    of truth in advertising. We probably all agree on that point, regardless of
    how we look upon various issues of authenticity.

    Have a great and safe season and we look forward to working with you.
    Last edited by paulcalloway; 02-09-2004, 01:06 PM.
    Paul Calloway
    Proudest Member of the Tar Water Mess
    Proud Member of the GHTI
    Member, Civil War Preservation Trust
    Wayne #25, F&AM

  • #2
    Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

    Originally posted by paulcalloway
    Here's that letter:
    Paul,

    Where's that letter again? This thread would be easier to comment on if you provide it. :-)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

      Let me share the experiences that led me to begin the c/p/h journey.

      At a large southern 'fest (Resaca) a few years ago, I saw a bunch of guys march into the woods next to us, their uniforms were different, made of jean, they threw down their knapsacks and blankets, no tents, then in the morning they were gone, some small burn marks and pressed grass the only thing to show they'd been there. I asked who those guys were...someone said "Campaigners, they only use what they can carry on their back..."

      Hmm, they sure didn't look like reenactors.

      At that same event, I picked up a copy of Camp Chase Gazette, showed a friend a great photo that I took to be period...he looked at it and said "you know those are reenactors"

      Why, those guys look like civil war soldiers!

      I saw the light... I realized that I looked like a reenactor, not the civil war soldier I saw in photographs...Then and there I set my goal "to look like a civil war soldier" (this was before I heard of the man,method, material triad).

      Point is....those campaigners were there at the 'fest for me to see. I didn't talk to them, they didn't talk to me. I was a mainstreamer in a sea of mainstreamers. But, if they hadn't been there for me to see, to show me something other than 'streamers.....by now I'd own a wall tent, a bunch of camp furniture, and my quest for authenticity would be limited to hiding my cooler in an authentic looking cracker box....
      Daniel Fodera
      Palmetto Living History Assoc

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

        Sorry was a formatting error I had to fix. Reload and it should appear in my original post.
        Paul Calloway
        Proudest Member of the Tar Water Mess
        Proud Member of the GHTI
        Member, Civil War Preservation Trust
        Wayne #25, F&AM

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

          All eyes are glued on the campaigner's as they walk through the event site.

          It's a pretty cool feelilng. :sarcastic
          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

          Aaron Schwieterman
          Cincinnati

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

            Paul, well said again. I feel it is very important to attend the occational mainstream event. Both, to show the few progressive minded individulas in that camp there is another way, and to show the rest that we aren't elitist, and can do as good a job as they do in aspects other than material culture.

            If the authenticity challenged only knew how many times I've heard spectators say something to the effect upon looking at us. "Now this is how they looked in the photographs" or "this is how soldiers really lived during battles."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

              pards,
              Paul's letter is thoughtful,kind and generous and I agree with everything in it.But the key thought for me is when he alluded to expectations.I have fun and enjoy the Pards wherever I go and whatever I do.I guess I am not "elitist" enough.People have been to the same events that I have been to and have come away with a very negative experience.I have read some AAR that made wonder if we had both been to the same event.I don't expect every senario to go off without a hitch or the amenties to alway be there.I don't always expect to enlighen the public and I know the big eastern events are a circus-----I guess I like the circus.Pick your pards and find a group to fall in with at the smaller more authentic events.Above all
              keep an open mind.
              Regards,R.Harris

              Ed: R. Harris, please sign your full name to your postings.
              Thanks, Scott McKay, moderator
              Last edited by ; 02-09-2004, 08:43 PM. Reason: Not signing full name to post
              Rick Harris

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                Paul - that is the best explanation I have seen yet of what we are attempting to do out here in the PNW. Extremely well said and please excuse if we adopt it as written...with proper Big Bug reference of course :)

                Another reason not mentioned for us is we would be bored to tears running 20 person events all year...
                Soli Deo Gloria
                Doug Cooper

                "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

                Please support the CWT at www.civilwar.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                  Paul:

                  I, too, think that is a great explanation. Good post, Paul!
                  David Culberson
                  The Rowdy Pards

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                    In California, our Farbs/Mainstreamers are far more vicious than those back east. They vehemently fight against any move toward authenticity. Their eyes may be on us when we walk through camp, but it is only because their hatred is so strong.

                    I agree that going to these events is very important to our movement. However, out here there are very few instances in which it works. In fact, most authentics out here came to that light without the influence of an authentic unit. Hell the only unit out here that was authentic until the last couple years was progressive at best...and now can be classified as digressive.

                    I agree though...a couple of mainstream events a year keeps us working hard to be better than the rest.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                      Paul,

                      I'll never forget the first instant I saw the AoP march by at Raymond... I thought to myself, "Now THAT is where I need to be." They didn't look like campaigners, or hardcores, or progressives etc. They looked like Western Federal civil war soldiers.

                      I attend events based on who else is attending them. Thus my expectations are with those I fall in with. I'm going to try like hell to be at The Freak on the Creek with the GHTI, as it may be my best chance to fall in with y'all this year.

                      Mike Phineas
                      Arlington, TX
                      Mike Phineas
                      Arlington, TX
                      24th Missouri Infantry
                      Independent Volunteer Battalion
                      www.24thmissouri.org

                      "Oh, go in anywhere Colonel, go in anywhere. You'll find lovely fighting all along the line."

                      -Philip Kearny

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                        And if for no other reason, it simply increases your opportunities to get out there. As someone else once said simply:

                        "I can campaign at mainstream events. [they]can't mainstream at campaign events" -- paraphrased

                        a campaigning artillery guy
                        K. Bartsch

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                          Paul,

                          I agree with your comments and the GHTI's approach to mainstream events. In my early years in the hobby, I had the opportunity to meet Bob Braun while attending a large mainstream event in Wisconsin. I did not understand half of the things he was talking about when we met, but I did notice that he had better uniform and equipage, drill, discipline, and a font of knowledge. A year after this, Mike Thorson hosted an event for our mainstream unit in 1992 and the 33d Wisconsin came and participated with mainstreamers showing us what could be done with our impressions.

                          After this event, Mike Thorson became a member of the 33d Wisconsin and the rest is history so to speak. We all know the great work that Mike did for the hobby and the 33d Wisconsin. It took me until 1998 to see the light with the help of a few pards and old chums such as Mike Thorson and Bill Brewster, but it was something that grew on me since that encounter with Mr. Braun in 1991.

                          I agree that one or two events per year is not a bad idea. It is not for everyone and even I sometimes question myself why am I doing this. I know going into a mainstream event what to expect and do not bash or chide others for not being at our level of accuracy (Except only when it is too horrible to stand such as Antietam 2002). I belong to two units, the Hard Head Mess and the Citizens Guard - Co “A” 2d Wisconsin, both which have very accurate standards and impressions.

                          I remember seeing what an accurate portrayal did for myself, and perhaps I can repay the favor to be that catalyst for someone else.

                          Great topic that can be quite heated at time. Thanks for sharing. I will be at one or two mainstream events as well in Wisconsin this year. Who knows what will happen?
                          Last edited by TKlas; 02-11-2004, 12:19 AM. Reason: Spelt a word wrong and omitted another.
                          Tom Klas
                          Hard Head Mess
                          Citizens Guard

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                            "I can campaign at mainstream events. [they]can't mainstream at campaign events" -- paraphrased

                            Bartsch,

                            You been trolling my posts on the OTB?

                            tsk, tsk, tsk, :tounge_sm
                            Joe Smotherman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: P/C/H Units attending mainstream events

                              The important thing to note about the GHTI is that support quality events as well. I have a problem with proclaimed, "progressive" groups who NEVER attend or support quality events in their region. Maybe Paul's approach is the only way to reinvigorate our numbers and interest in the p/c/h way of doing things.

                              Regards,
                              Jim Butler
                              The SRR
                              Jim Butler

                              Comment

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