Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

[sigsaye]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Steve,

Count me in on the Navy side. I'll need a new uniform, it's been a long time since I've done a Navy impression, and grew out of my old uniform. I may be able to fit into the fall-front next year, but I'll need a new blouse. Can you help me out? I'm set in all other regards concerning accoutrements, rifle, hat, etc... My impression is for one of the ships' crew of the U.S.S. Weehawken.

Nick, go to my web site and see what you may need. You'll need to remove any Weehawken cap tally if you have one. Accoutrements and weapons is a non issue as the Sailors were POWs.

[sigsaye]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Steve, Thank you for the information.
If field craft is a dying art among army reenactors, the skills possessed by most sailors must be as rare as hen’s teeth.
I have been looking Navy and Marine pictures, and one of the things I noticed is lots of pull on boots, when footwear was visible.

Well, actually, Sailors went ashore for a day at a time as possible to train in skirmish tactics. When available, they went under the command of a Marine. They wern't slouches. I like to say that the average Sailor was about as well trained as a good group of reenactors.

Steve Hesson

[sigsaye]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

This event idea sounds absolutely fascinating. The notion of correctly portrayed USN sailors and US Marines is VERY exciting to me. I would consider participating if I had any right to the impression; I know absolutely nothing about Civil War maritime history, material culture, etc.. Thinking about myself trying to portray a sailor accurately sounds like more of a challenge than I could handle!

AWWW, come on Brian. The Navy was filled with "Landsmen", guys fresh off the farm that had never seen much more that a tub full of water. The main thing to know is that Soldiers are worthless scum and while Marines arn't much better, they are family so we take care of them, sort of like that "slower" cousin that sits and stares with his mouth hanging open:wink_smil

Steve Hesson
(Really a retired Squid)

[SCTiger]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Looks like I struck a chord with the interest on this one! Well I wish we could do it next September but, 2013 should give everyone enough time. The Tramp Brigade wants the role of Elliot's men. I definitely could get enough men for a fair representation.

Right now none of the official records are in agreement, so I will need some help in these areas:

1. Actual number of Marines and Navy, which ships they were from, how many was killed in battle, died in the hospital or POW camps, and who was exchanged out. It's 3 to 19 killed, 106 taken prisoner. Also some of the dead & wounded returned on empty boats. Five boats are captured and at least one is sunk.

2. Weapons: Major Elliot's OR has some mention of this. I will post more later. Where did the Confederates get the Ketchum grenades?

3. As mentioned before, the everyday life of ACW Sailors and Marines. Drill and training.

Sources:

OR's, newspaper, personal accounts, ships logs, hospital records, quartermaster returns, POW records.
period images.


SOUTH ATLANTIC BLOCKADING SQUADRON. Ftfth division.
Ensign C. H. Craven, Housatonic; Captain Marines C. G. McCawley, Marine battery; First Lieutenant C. H. Bradford, Marine battery, prisoner; Second Lieutenant J. C. Harris, Marine battery, prisoner; Second Lieutenant R. L. Meade, Marine battery, prisoner; Second Lieutenant William Wallace, marine battery; Second Lieutenant L. E. Fagan, Marine battery.
Report of Lieutenant-Commander Williams, U. S. Navy. ROXBURY, Mass., September 27, 1864.

SIR:

I have the honor to make the following report of the capture of myself and party on the morning of the 9th of September, 1863, in an attempt to storm Fort Sumter. On the morning of the 8th, I received orders from Admiral Dahlgren to take command of a division of boats in a night attack on Fort Sumter, to proceed with the vessel under my command outside the bar, and call for the requisite number of men and boats, from the vessels stationed there. During the day, I collected the men and boats, the number and names of which have been reported by their respective commanders. I recrossed the bar after sunset, so late as to render it impossible for the enemy to see the boats in tow. On reporting on board the flagship, I found the remainder of the force assembled around that vessel, but the order of attack had not been arranged. Lieutenant Preston and myself at once arranged the different divisions, Commander Stevens, who commanded the party, approving of the arrangement and of the orders. The landing party was in three divisions first division, commanded by myself; second division, commanded by Lieutenant Remey; third division, commanded by Lieutenant Preston. The orders were to form the divisions as soon as cast off from the tug, pull quietly for the fort, land without firing, and do our best to gain the walls; the other divisions with the marines to cover or land, as circumstances should require. Commander Stevens fully approved of these orders. At 9 o'clock I saw Commander Stevens and received his last orders. I said to him that the orders were fully understood. If he should not be up to land with me, I would land as soon as I reached the fort. If the enemy should offer no resistance to the landing, would form my men, wait for him, and all go over together; but if resistance was made, I would storm the walls at once and depend upon being supported. He said he expected to land with me, and if not, would see that the others supported my division. That is the last order I received from him. Between 10 and 11 o'clock the tug got underway, and with the boats in tow, we steamed up the harbor. After nearing the fort it turned back, and three times it made a. circle near the fort. None of us in the boats could understand the maneu ver, and it had the effect of dampening the ardor of the men. Sud- denly, without any word being passed to prepare for it, we found the boats adrift, the tug at the same time heading so as to render it impossible to form the divisions without great confusion. Ordering the first division to follow me, I pulled clear of the boats and formed line abreast. The first division was composed of the following boats: Powhatan, third cutter, Acting Master Hustace, and Lieutenant Pope, of the Marine Corps, with 15 marines; Powhatan, fourth cutter, with myself, Acting Masters Mate Hovey, and Sailmaker Brayton; gig from the New Ironside, Ensign Porter; IVissaldcleon, first cutter, Acting Master Dayton; W~ssa1dckon, second cutter, Acting Masters Mate King. As I was to land in the gorge wall, I took the right of my division, ordering Mr. Porter on the left to make sure the boats should be kept close. As soon as the division was formed, I ordered the boats to lay on their oars and only use them to keep our position. The tide swept us rapidly up to the fort; when within 50 yards, the sen- tinel on the gorge wall hailed. I made no reply, but with my night glass sought a good place to land. He hailed three times and fired on us at the third hail, to which I had answered Passing. On his firing, having found a good landing place, I ordered the boats to give way and land. Three strokes of the oars sent us to the beach. I at once jumped from my boat, followed by the men, and started up the walls. On reaching the top of the second tier of casemates, we found the top of the wall projected, so as to render it impossible for us to close with the enemy. Mr. Porter, who was on the left of the division, and most distant from the beach, was by my side almost as soon as I struck the beach. Mr. Dayton, in the TVis8aldckons third cutter, also landed atonce with his men, but of those in the third cutter of the Powhatan, in charge of Acting Master Hustace and Leutenant Pope, only two landed, William Simms, boatswains mate, and Corporal Cully, marine. They reported that when they left the boat, Mr. Hustace was giving the order to shove off, and they jumped from the boat to follow the landing party. I know no reason why all in the third cutter should not have landed at once. They could have landed with a small loss, and retreating only exposed them to a heavy fire. I saw nothing of the Wi8sa/dckons second cutter, under the charge of Acting Masters Mate King. He must have retreated at the first fire. I know no reason why the officers of these two boats should not have landed at once and followed me, as they were ordered. Lieutenant Remey, commanding the second division, landed, only a part of his division following him. Lieutenant Preston, commanding third division, also landed, but was not followed by the others of his division. The boats that held back opened fire with their revolvers, the shot striking among us who were halfway up the walls. Hoping to find a place where we could close with the enemy, I ordered the boats outside to cease firing and land, repeating the order several times. Lieutenants Meade and Bradford, of the Marine Corps, at once ceased firing and landed, losing but a few men, which showed how easy it would have been for the other boats to land. At this time the forts on James and Sullivans islands opened fire with shell; also a ram, with grape and canister. It was then impossible for any boat to pass through the fire. The enemy sunk or disabled all the boats by shot and brick thrown from the wall. Finding it impossible to get over the walls, I ordered the men to shelter themselves in the holes made by our shells. The enemy kept up a constant fire on us, throwing hand grenades, bricks, fireballs, and other missiles among us. Hoping something might be done for our relief, I would not surrender, but some of the men from Lieutenant Bradford's boat, he having been mortally wounded in landing, surrendered, and were ordered around on the left, to come into the fort.

It continues for volumes and it's very confusing, so we will have to sort through it all.

[Mudslinger]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

1. Actual number of Marines and Navy, which ships they were from, how many was killed in battle, died in the hospital or POW camps, and who was exchanged out. It's 3 to 19 killed, 106 taken prisoner. Also some of the dead & wounded returned on empty boats. Five boats are captured and at least one is sunk.

Steve,

My Navy hat is unlabeled, it should be okay. I will definitely check the website to get the other info.



Greg,

The number was appx. 500 Sailors and Marines, as written by Gilmore and Dalghren. These are the ships of the USN South Atlantic Squardron from July 1863 to the time of the amphibious assault:


U.S.S. New Ironsides
U.S.S. Weehawken (monitor)
U.S.S. Passaic (monitor)
U.S.S. Housatonic
U.S.S. Wissahicken
U.S.S. Mercedita (monitor)
U.S.S. Keystone State (monitor)
U.S.S. Quaker City
U.S.S. Memphis
U.S.S. Augusta
U.S.S. Nahant (monitor)
U.S.S. Catskill (monitor)
U.S.S. Nantucket (monitor)
U.S.S. Patapsco (monitor)

Gunboats (small converted steamers for river action):
U.S.S. Wamsetta
U.S.S. Diaching
U.S.S. Geranium
U.S.S. Ellen
U.S.S. Unadilla
U.S.S. Pembina
U.S.S. Ottawa
U.S.S. Flag
U.S.S. Stellin
U.S.S. Commodore MacDonough
U.S.S. Governor
U.S.S. Sabine
U.S.S. Vandalia (sloop)
U.S.S. Sumter


Here are my resources, they are few, but the entire list is extensive. I'll try and post them asap:

Courier, Sept. 1, 1863
O.R. XXVIII, Pt. 2, p. 344
O.R., Navy, XIV, 219, 425, 608, 633
Charleston Mercury, Sept. 12, 1863
Scharf, 700

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

This event idea sounds absolutely fascinating. The notion of correctly portrayed USN sailors and US Marines is VERY exciting to me. I would consider participating if I had any right to the impression; I know absolutely nothing about Civil War maritime history, material culture, etc.. Thinking about myself trying to portray a sailor accurately sounds like more of a challenge than I could handle!

Brian, you should seriously consider it anyway. I have one Union Navy ancestor who ironically was a farmboy from landlocked Central Michigan. Steve is right, there were landsmen galore with little nautical knowledge, and for what we are doing, you'd make a good POW. I'm sure a navy frock could somehow be slipped into a package of incoming shirts to your establishment...

[Mudslinger]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

I may be able to bring 3-4 guys from up here down there also, which means that Steve will be getting a BIG order this Fall. Most are former Squids too. Keep us in mind Greg. I'm REALLY looking forward to this event. Plus, it's home, and I try and make it back home as much as possible.

I know Rick wouldn't go for it, or the rest of the NPS staff; could we still sneak a grog ration in? LOL

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Darn it Ross....that sounds awesome. I know at some point Dan is going to read my comments here and think to himself "great, he's going to start questing around for Navy uniforms to reproduce for himself just for one event." And I will too! As long as I can help contribute to the wider portrayal...and make a good prisoner.

Of course I didn't realize that the Navy was comprised of men from all around the country and from different walks of life; that makes perfect sense. I have no CW ancestors who were in the Navy, but my grandfather left high school in Cincinnati and joined after Pearl Harbor; at the time he had never been on a boat, not even on an Ohio River ferry.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Of course I didn't realize that the Navy was comprised of men from all around the country and from different walks of life; that makes perfect sense. I have no CW ancestors who were in the Navy, but my grandfather left high school in Cincinnati and joined after Pearl Harbor; at the time he had never been on a boat, not even on an Ohio River ferry.

Brian, you'll be surprised of the ethnic nature of the Naval Service also as you dig deeper.

Greg and I are really excited about the interest in this proposed event so far. We'll be contacting and asking for opinions, support and guidence from those living historians interested in doing something out of the ordinary in Charleston in 2013.

[sigsaye]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Brian, you'll be surprised of the ethnic nature of the Naval Service also as you dig deeper.

Greg and I are really excited about the interest in this proposed event so far. We'll be contacting and asking for opinions, support and guidence from those living historians interested in doing something out of the ordinary in Charleston in 2013.

Interestingly enough, 47% of the Enlisted Sailors were Irish imagrents. By the end of the war, 1/3 were black. On the Monitor, of the 40 enlisted sailors, only 8 were native born Americans. The rest were a mix of Irish, Scott, English, French, German and the odd Norwiegan and Dane. the "Americans" formed thier own mess. Luckily for them, a mess member was the wardroom cook, so while the rest of the crew lived on hard tack and salt pork, they were getting the left overs from the officers (who were siphoning off the funds to feed the crew and useing it themselves, for fresh meats and vegetables, while feeding the crew condemed Army stores).

Steve Hesson

[kb35]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Hi Steve,
Good to see you posting here.
I have a complete Union Naval kit (enlisted) and am interested in this event. At one time I was spending a lot of time researching CW navy, primarily the river forces, but this event sounds very interesting and I would be happy to dust off my blues and research an impression acceptable for this scenario. All of my gear was made by Mr Hesson so it should pass muster.

And Steve come on.... slower cousin that sits and stares with his mouth hanging open.....? Thats just too much ....I never let my mouth just hang open...and the staring is always done resolutely, in a military manner!

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Here are some sailor and Marine pictures I found, hope they help with research...


Sailors and Marines on the Deck of the U.S. Gunboat Mendota - 1864


Gun Crew of a Dahlgren Gun at Drill Aboard the U.S. Gunboat Mendota – 1864


Captain John A. Winslow (3d from left) and Officers on Board the U.S.S. Kearsarge After Sinking the C.S.S. Alabama - 1864


Deck and Officers of U.S.S. Monitor Catskill, Lieutenant Commander Edward Barrett Seated on the Turret - Charleston Harbor, SC


Sailors Relaxing on Deck of U.S.S. Monitor - James River, VA, July 1862


Sailors on Deck of U.S.S. Monitor - James River, VA, July 9, 1862


Federal Recruiting Poster - Issued at New Berne, NC, November 1863


Religious Services on the Deck of the U.S. Monitor Passaic - 1864

[Marine Mike]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

The various sources I have reference to say the first two pictures Pete posted are the USS Miami. In the first are about six Marines in the fatigue of '64 which was a top to bottom six button opening. Earlier ones were a pullover style open to mid chest and closed with three front buttons and two collar buttons. The fatigue was worn with a white linen shirt or a dark blue wool flannel. The Marines appear to be playing checkers, playing banjo or just enjoying a relaxing moment. The picture has been cropped otherwise you would clearly see the Marine by the capstan is also playing checkers. The kepi cover usually indicates a Marine.
The second shows a Marine in the undress frock with full accoutrements. Some pictures from '64 on show marines with waist belt mounted scabbard (Marine sentry aboard the USS Montauk guarding Lewis Paine, a Lincoln assassination suspect) but the baldric style remains part of the uniform through the Korean conflict of 1870's. I have one source that states the buff accoutrements (cartridge belt, waist belt and baldric) for the Ft. Sumter attack of 9 Sep '63 were ordered stained black for this night time assualt and to wear the winter uniform of sky blue wool trousers instead the summer white linen.
An earlier note asked about grog. Grog was made unlegal and illawful by order of Congress beginning Sept. 1862. The nickel a day was allowed to continue and was mentioned in recruiting posters that recruits could earn an extra $1.50 per month at sea. Officiers wine mess was allowed to continue until a teetotaler named Josephus Daniels was appointed Secretary of the Navy by President Wilson. He is why coffee is also known as joe.
Three Marine recruiting posters can be seen at www.bluejacket.com/usmc/posters

Mike Stein

[sigsaye]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

Hi Steve,
Good to see you posting here.
I have a complete Union Naval kit (enlisted) and am interested in this event. At one time I was spending a lot of time researching CW navy, primarily the river forces, but this event sounds very interesting and I would be happy to dust off my blues and research an impression acceptable for this scenario. All of my gear was made by Mr Hesson so it should pass muster.

And Steve come on.... slower cousin that sits and stares with his mouth hanging open.....? Thats just too much ....I never let my mouth just hang open...and the staring is always done resolutely, in a military manner!

Ken! Good to hear from you, how have you been doing. Guess you and Jason haven't skewered each other yet. That's good.

Now, you know that the "Slower Cousin" analogy is to give a young man with no idea about the family relationship between the only two fighting forces in the world that really matter, a "base" to start from.

I'm heading down into Tennessee today until Friday on business, will talk to you then.

And, Ken has done some serious research into river Sailors, so another assett (and he is a former Marine, but we still hang out together:wink_smil.

Steve Hesson

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Soldiers vs. Sailors/Marines Boat Landing LH Ft. Sumter Inquiry

The Marines appear to be playing checkers, playing banjo or just enjoying a relaxing moment.

Mike Stein

Brady photo of USS Hunchback in James River.

George wunderlich makes a copy of this banjo he calls the "Hunchback"