Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

[County Militia]

Greetings!

I'm not sure if I placed this thread in the right section or not. My apologies if misplaced.

I recently was having a discussion about the War in general, when an interesting thing was heard.

The person angrily denounced re-enactments and re-enactors, saying:

"...Also I have a serious problem with anyone that relishes in what many people consider the absolute worst era in the history of America. Civil War Reenactors should be ashamed of yourselves. You're making light of what should only be looked back on with solice and shame. Not replayed for the fun and amusement of crowds of onlookers. Delude yourselves all you want that you're educating people to the stark reality of what happened but you're not. At the end a bell wasn't sounded and none the dead got up, took a bow and went back to camp to await the next show."

My question to you all is:

Have you ever encountered such attacks as these?

And:

What would your response be or has been to these attacks?


Regards,

Jack Peasley

[NY Pvt]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

On the old forum there was quite a long discussion about this very thing. I won’t even say it….. (yeah too bad we lost all of the posts)

Personally I never met someone who feels this way, although I am sure they are around. Those who do feel like that don’t normally go to events or won’t come over to view living histories and talk. I believe this view is the minority in the public. Most people realize that reenactors can be valuable in help presenting history and saving our heritage.

Even if I ever meet one of these Nay-Sayers I wouldn’t let it pull me down. I know that I have helped people understand certain aspects of the period better, and nothing can describe seeing young kid’s interest in history spark by your presence. It was reenactors that first sparked my life long interest in the Civil War as a young kid.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I live in close proximity to a very "Liberal" city that gives my state its reputation. I have met with about 5 people that have had this opinion towards our hobby. I have found them to be totally ignorant to our hobby, and history in general. They are some of the most hipocritical, and moronic people I have ever met, and not really worth worring about.

[Clark Badgett]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

My mother is that way, but she thinks she knows everything. I just love it when she thinks she can tell me more about how veterans feel on certain subjects than I know (I am a vet, and so are about 90% of the people I know).

[Spinster]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Oh yes, I've encountered them---and in some cases, they were foolish enough to pay to get into an event so they could expound their views to us poor unenlightened reenactors

And since I'm normally wandering back to camps with my spinning wheel on my shoulder about the time y'all boys go BOOM, I'm usually the one who gets caught by a Pontificating Preachy Person.

My answer varies with the situation--I can give St. Augustine's and St. Thomas Aquinas's proofs for a "just war", and compare them to modern just and unjust wars--and do so when there is someone of sufficient mental fiber to make the discussion worthwhile and entertaining. This is particularly effective when I'm doing a "Sister of Charity" and can hold first person while doing so.

Usually though, their heads seem to be full of cream of wheat, so I just settle back into my slat bonnet and fall into my "old and confused" character,

I must say my all-time favorite PPP was the woman at Perryville 140 who seemed to regard us in the authentic civilian camp as some sort of gypsy tribe who made our living moving from place to place doing this sort of thing. She was especially concerned about the little boys playing in the shallow running stream (though she thought them girls, as they were still of the age to wear dresses).

After several pointed questions about the welfare of these children (they SLEEP out here?! in this weather?, they EAT?! whats in that pot?), and my pointing out their various mothers who were engaged in all sorts of industry about 30 feet away, she finally whipped out the sword of "WHY AREN'T THESE CHILDREN IN SCHOOL?!" "Well, Mam,,,,,,,,maybe because its Saturday?" :tounge_sm

[MissMaggie]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

When I first started reenacting my sister used to tell me that I glorifed war and that I was a war monger. I'd ever so innocently point out that I was a civilian, that never seemed to help. Of course the "war monger" fight would turn into a "who cares more about history" and "who is more accurate than who". She seemed to think that her job selling turkey legs at the local Rennaisance festival on the weekends counted as historical reenacting.

[ElizabethClark]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Well, the short answer is:

You shouldn't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

If a PPP truly does believe their own rantings, then there is little I can do to change that. I invite them to watch and possibly even participate, but if they're going to be abusive, I'll usually ask them to please leave. Whatever else you do, don't get sucked into the vitriol!

I also have a hard time taking seriously anyone who mis-spells AND mis-uses "solace" in a sentence, but that's just the Grammar Nazi in me.

Often, though, if someone is doing their Parrot Impression at me, I do like to clarify what they're asking: "So, do you support the constitutional right of a people to be governed by an elective government? Do you believe the United States had a right to break away from an unjust nation, and fight a war to do so?" It's important to not ask in a confrontational tone, but just in a curious one... and actually listen to the answers. Sometimes you can clarify just what they're really griping about, or share some information that opens up the discussion.

But a zealot on a rant is pert nigh un-stoppable, and I don't usually try (just as folks don't often try to stop me when I'm on the Stump.) There's always the last comment:

"Isn't it great that we live in a country where dissenting opinions are encouraged?"

[JR Myzie]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I might respond this way:

"First of all, in this period when reality TV is considered education, Janet Jackson's breast is considered entertainment, the nation's judiciary has no historical understanding of our constitution, the legislature doesn't care, and most Americans are just too dumb to know better about any of it, I think that anyone who relishes history of any sort ought to be commended, not condemned. A country that's ashamed to look at its history is destined to repeat it, and I don't think there's a country in the world that hasn't got something in its past to be ashamed of...something it ought to be afraid of repeating.

"While its important to look back at shameful times in our past, it's also important to recognise the good that went along with them. By ignoring one, we're forced to ignore the other. By turning away from the CW in shame, we fail to see how our nation’s ordinary men and women became extraordinary. We would have to blot out the memory of a time when simple men became great generals, when women proved to be men's equal while running farms and businesses on the homefront, when a terrible institution was eradicated, and when the nation's meekest, new freedmen were amassed into valiant regiments. How could anyone think that it's wrong to be amused by this. These are stories that inspire and urge us on to do better things.

"It's ignorance to single out the CW as the worst era in the history of America. Only a few short years after the US government freed slaves, it was chasing the Indians around the country-side like beasts to be corralled. By the middle of the following century this nation had the audacity to send its army to free interned Jews and Pols in Europe while it interned parts of its own citizenry because they had slanted eyes. Only a generation after that, while the worst scourge this world has ever known, causing death, oppression, mediocrity, grief, and violence on every land it's ever touched, spread through Southeast Asia, many in this country openly opposed efforts to stem communism, and secretly offered material assistance. Yet today, Roosevelt's image adorns our currency and tie-dye shirts and peace signs are vogue.

"However, in the end, it's important that all of these issues and eras be addressed. Reenacting is one of many legitimate forms of education, including the cinema and TV outlets such as the History Channel, which use history as amusement."

Unfortunately, to those people who are sufficiently closed-minded, nothing you say will change their view. Sometimes the best response is just to shake your head and walk away, hopefully bumping into somebody who is amused by learning history.

Jeffrey Myzie
Stroudsburg, Penna

[markj]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Greetings,

All I can say is, "Be a good, polite, and knowledgeable role model."

Obviously these types of folks have issues and will only change if THEY want to change. Bear in mind that a significant percentage, probably a majority, of those who disparage reenactors also believe that:

1. George W. Bush is a moron (never mind that he was a very competent F-102 pilot, acquired a coveted Harvard MBA, and was twice elected governor of Texas).

2. AIDS is a secret CIA biological warfare experiment gone awry.

3. Saddam Hussein was more trustworthy than Donald Rumsfeld.

4. We knew in advance about 9-11 but allowed it to happen anyway in order to justify a global war on terror (this is a variation of the old "Pearl Harbor Theory").

5. Bill Clinton "never had s*x with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

6. Raising taxes automatically solves problems.

Don't believe me? Start surfing the Web.

Very truly yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

Mark -- please try to keep modern politics off this forum. BTW, I totally agree with you and would undoubtedly vote for you in a heartbeat, but this AIN'T the place to make those points, as this is a Civil War LH forum. Modern politics either belong in the preservation folder (e.g. mobilizing to save battlefields, etc) or they don't belong on our forum. But you might find FreeRepublic.com a lot of fun! -- Kathryn Coombs, civilian co-moderator

[Guardsman]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Some may say it was shameful for part of a nation to fight for the institution of slavery but a larger part fought to destroy that institution.

In my view there were two much more shameful episode in our history that were backed by our government:

1) The interment in concentration camp of American citizens of Japanese decent.
2) The slaughter and continual breaking of treaties and agreement with the indigenous population.

Also in my mind one of the greatest accomplishments of this democracy happened during the war, we had open and free elections twice, once for the president of the then United States. I have heard of no other country, past or present that has held open elections in the middle of a civil war or large rebellion.

I have never run into someone with those views, but we also must admit that there are some events out there that are shameful.

[SCTiger]

Re: Burn the Soap Boxes

Comrades:

As a very unreconstructed Confedrate I would take extreme offense to any Southern stereotypes and for the anonymous lady who stated that it doesn't reflect real history, I would say she was right in some ways. I would then ask for her input on how we could "improve" our presentations. I woulldn't re-enforce her negative views on reenactors, maybe she reads FHM magazine, who knows.

I think we could dump a lot of the politics and just focus on the historical aspects, good, bad or indifferent. If we tolerate one politcal view, we have to tolerate them all. If we are going to be objective historians. People from every political philosophy will attend living history's and reenactments from the far left to moderate to the rabid right (me) . If I can listen to a socialist teacher squeal that my ancestors fought for the system of slavery and still maintain low blood pressure, then anyone can remain objective and smile when they say such things.

Personally I am going to dump much of the politics and if anyone tries to goad me into anger, I am letting it go. Less politics (from all camps) would be the best antidote to falling memberships. So could we drop the proselytizing and political agendas?

[Nor'easter]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I think the evidence clearly indicates a piloting error on your part that somehow missed the turn at Gettysburg, landing you instead at the Hare Krishna conference down the 'rud. (holding index fingers and thumbs)Ohmmmmmmmm.........

[GeraldTodd]

You cannot win, so why try?

Well next time she watches CSI maybe she'll realise she's gaining enjoyment from depictions of the misfortune and demise (usually violent) of other people.

Next time she enjoys one of those lame "reality" shows maybe it will occur to her that she is getting enjoyment from competition, conflict, and the deliberate humiliation of people for entertainment.

It's often found that the guy yelling "family values" is cheating on his wife, the loudest bible thumper skims the collection plate, and the most "honest" politician has the biggest skeleton in his closet. These folks tend to make all this noise not out of any true indignation, but as a smoke screen for their own issues and guilt.

[County Militia]

Close Encounters

This was the first time that I had ever encountered a person who so despised The Hobby.

Why do they hate us? Are they jealous? Are they just looking for trouble?


After a slightly heated discussion with the naysayer, the reply came back:

Reenactors have no fear of death, no worry if they'll eat that night, or ever see their children again. It's a game to them. Deny it all you want. You said it's a rush. The bad food, the noise, the smoke from the guns, the itchy clothes, it's all a game. It's all just pretend. It reminds me of the people that wear camo and army boots, and claim they're soldiers because they go play paintball on the weekend. Say what you want but people participate in reenactments because they have fun doing it, they enjoy the comradery of their fellow "soldiers", the thrill they get playing with the weapons. And the majority of the people that watch them are there to be entertained. Not to understand the stark reality that war is hell, and that one in particular killed more American boys then ALL other wars combined.

[Fiddlebum]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Perhaps you should make this person aware that the first Civil War "reenactments" were put on by the veterans themselves at post-war reunions. It's even on video if you can find it.

Kim Caudell