Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

[poncho]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I have only had one of these "encounters". It happened oddly enough at my front door to my apartment. It was a middle aged woman who lived in the same building, and caught me in my outfit on the way home from an event. She at first was kindly curios. and asked me the usual questions, all the while I'm in my kit, in the hallway of my apartment building. Any way, she all of a sudden took a sharp turn and asked me if I feel comfortable re-enacting war. I replied that I re-enact history to educate, and that I don't "like war" I told her that I was fascinated with history in general and this was an appropriate outlet for me to enjoy it further.
I will admit that I fired back by saying that war plays an integral part in history, for instance if it wasn't for war, this would not be the united states. At this point she launched in to an offensive consisting of Vietnam was BS and that it was just a platform for the government to introduce illegal narcotics to young people! All in all, this was the only experience of this sort that I had, everyone else is fascinated with what I do and I beleive that they see the value in what we do.
Pierre King
27th Conn.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Close Encounters

Jack,

I guess I don't quite see how this would make you loose faith in the human race. From the first post, I found myself in dissagreement on several points. In this latest posted exchange with the "naysayer" I do find some decently reasoned points in that person's opinion.

Can you honestly tell me that you participate in the hobby because it's no fun? Short of you being into S&M, I highly doubt it. You drive all that way, buy all that stuff, do all that research because you can barely stand this? Can you truthfully state that the relationships you build with folks, some of who come to events from thousands of miles distant and soldier with you isn't a part of what keeps you into this? And can you tell me that you are ever truly scared for you life, that you suspect that you'll never see your your wife again, that you might be maimed, die of the shits, or one of the other countless fates that befell those men? Aside from seeing some fool jamming a triple charge down a cannon tube or a horse running amuck through the lines, I would tend to doubt that even under the best 1st person moment that you are really and truly scared for your well-being. Whether you will fess up to it, don't we enjoy chatting with our comrades? Talking weapons, drill, uniforms, vendors, period cooking recipes, whatever. No, we don't do that all the time, every time but it's part of the whole experience, the (gasp) fun of it all. And on the point about the public coming out to be entertained- how can you remotely argue that 95+% of them don't fall into that category. If that weren't the case, Sutler USA wouldn't sell a single cork pop gun, the elephant ear vendor would shut down, and the much loved kettle corn would blow away like so many tumbleweeds. Yep, some do come to see what soldiers looked and lived like and to see what the physical appearance of a battle might have looked like but by and large, I'd be willing to bet that most are there to be entertained. The ones who are there for other motives tend to be those wearing the jean wool and kersey.

So I think I find myself agreeing with the naysayer, at least on a few of the specific points that they made in the second response you posted. We don't even have an inkling of the fear and horror that was battle. Even at the best EBUFU events I don't get a sense of that. I know that there aren't real slugs flying at me, that I won't be double-shotted when I get close enough to the other line. Do we come to grips, even in a small sense, with the heat, blisters, and privations of the men? Yes. You really only have to sleep in a driving rain storm once to understand that when you're wet, cold, and miserable that you're tasting something that those men dealth with as often as the heavens opened upon them. But do we drink from whatver water source we come upon? Do we march 20 miles in Mississippi and then go into a fight at the end of the road? Do we freeze in the winter? Walk with no shoes through Cumberland Gap. Nope. So again, we're not really getting the full taste of what it was like. I'm not advocating that we drink filthly bilge water or push ourselves to the limits of our powers of endurance and courage but if you kid yourself for a moment and think you're coming even remotely close to that then you've got a long, long way to go. We do this because we CHOOSE to. Because, despite some hardships, it's FUN. We have COMRADES from all over and we enjoy talking gear, guns, and the like.

Why do they hate us? Why do they despise us you ask? Well, perhaps it's because just as many on the other side of that opinion are equally close-minded. If you can't at least accept that what they believe is grounded in logic; that you can't see that even if you disagree that they may be scoring a few good points amid a sea of bad ones, then you're equally at fault and no one will come away the better, only more bitter and firmly entrenched in the notion that "I'm" right and "they're" wrong. That close-mindedness and resentment builds, grows, spreads, and festers to no good end.

I'm not calling you down personally, at least I'm not trying to. What I'm advocating is that you admit that this "naysayer" has said some things, some of them way off, some of them more on the mark that you or others might be willing to admit. Rather than scoffing it off take it for what it is- a lesson. A chance to reflect on why YOU do what you do and why YOU feel what you feel about that rather than resorting to finger pointing, chuckling, and fearing for the fate of humanity. The other person seems to have done that reflection.

My two cents.

Fred Baker

[markj]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Hi Kim,

"Perhaps you should make this person aware that the first Civil War "reenactments" were put on by the veterans themselves at post-war reunions. It's even on video if you can find it."

Actually, there was a "reenactment" of a Civil War battle put on for public entertainment as early as July 1861. What makes this "sham battle" interesting is that a) it was scripted pretty closely to the actual engagement, b) many of the reenactment participants had themselves fought in the actual battle just less than three weeks before, and c) the "reenactment" resulted in nearly as many casualties as the real engagement. I have also found evidence for a living history "representation" that was arranged for the public around Christmas 1864.

I am now preparing one or more articles for the "Watchdog" documenting these events and they should probably appear in an upcoming issue.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

Mark: Battle of Stinkweed Valley

I am now preparing one or more articles for the "Watchdog" documenting these events and they should probably appear in an upcoming issue.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger[/QUOTE]


- - -

One of the volumes of Illinois MOLLUS concerns the 12th Ill. Inf.
Its post-war but it tells of a 'battle' between battalions at Cairo in 1861.


John Pillers
THE Skulkers Mess

[Ken]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I live in close proximity to a very "Liberal" city that gives my state its reputation. I have met with about 5 people that have had this opinion towards our hobby. I have found them to be totally ignorant to our hobby, and history in general. They are some of the most hipocritical, and moronic people I have ever met, and not really worth worring about.

Rob,

We have people like that where I come from to. We call them ignorant ass holes.
:wink_smil

Ken Raia

[County Militia]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Fred,

Your post was most exquisetely written, and you've swayed my viewpoints for the most part. :)

I still disagree with the naysayer on about half of the points, especially in the first response, but my views have changed. And yes, some of the naysayers points were valid.

Ah, if only there were a hundred folks that could express themselves as good as you did. (Especially in regards to politics)


I think an edit to my previous post is on it's way.

[Radical Unionist]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

So, a while back, in the locker room at a military historic site, a site guide was over heard to say "I am a proud fake army soldier, service in the fake army is an honerable proffession."

And everybody's favorite "You don't know what it is like to stand on this battlefield and pretend to fight for something you believe in."

Somebody should take a hard look at Reenacting ethics. Entertainment with dignity for all those involved, the real ones and pretend ones.

This whole question has bothered me enough over the years that I don't participate in battles anymore, no dignity.

As far as the CW veterans being the first reenactors, take a harder look at the circumstance.(it ain't that simple)

When I was a kid most CW reenactors where old vets (veitnam and ww2), ain't like that anymore. The whole thing feels different now, at events there ain't many(if any) next to me that really saw the elephant anymore.

Jeff Boorom
Wide Awake
Watch out you Irish Demoncrats. Little Giants, ha, more like Little Joints.

[Radical Unionist]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

And a few points of history and reality.

Slavery was Bad, no matter how(or when) you look at it.

War is Bad, There are few times there wasn't a better alterative.

War is not fun, nor is pain, nor the process of death.

Obnoxious pretend death w/ lots of catsup is not dignified. Neither does it educate anyone about history. (maybe some on human stupidity, but not history)

Most people are cowards, and seeing some the biggest cowards pretending to be something other than what they are, can get your nerves sometimes.

Jeff Boorom
Wide Awake
A baby elephant, scared me to all hell, would scare most men want to live.

[1842musket]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Folks,
In reference to the types of people being discussed in this thread, a Wise Man once said:

"It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a Fool, then to open it and leave no doubt."

Don't concern yourself with Fools.

Cheers,
Larry McIrvin

[JACKSONVC]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Folks,
I have spent the last 15 years of my life in the active component of army of the United States, and without doubt, these same shameless folks that we deal with in the reenacting world surface around the modern military as well. Without making too many disparaging comments about their views and motivations, I would like to say that the same retoric they foist upon the reenacting world is the same retoric they pin on the Military.

In peacetime, we are all toy soldiers, playing war, a burden upon the the taxpayer. In wartime we are baby killing savages.

They forget that the armies of now and of yesteryear are the same forces that have fought and died for their right to open their festering hole otherwise known as a mouth and spew fecies all over us.

The scariest thing about these people is the fact that they do not support anything that is contrary to their belief system, they refuse to listen to any opinion we may have, but demand that we listen and agree with them wholeheartedly.

I for one will listen to anyone, your chance to be heard however is based off of your respect for my opinion and what I do. If you cannot abide this simple courtesy, I am prone to say:" I am sorry, but I do not have time for you or your disrespectful opinions. Please excuse me."

I joined the army to protect and defend the constitution of the United States. I joined reenacting to honor the memory of those who had gone before to protect and defend the constitution of the United States.

Did we not become involved with reenacting to educate others about the plight and sacrafice of the soldier of the civil war? As in all things, there are those who will disagree.....let them, it is their right and they are welcome to it. Just don't let ourselves stoop to their level of discourtesy and ignorance, we will be better for it.

Just an opinion. Thanks for listening.

[dusty27]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Folks,

This thread is headed out of the CW realm and into modern thought/situations which we don't want discussed on this forum. Please reserve your modern idealogy for other outlets.

Thank you.

[billwatson]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Why not respond by telling the person what you think of golf, or some other topic on which you have strong and annoying opinions?

Alternative: Tell them to sit on their thumb and spin.

Bill, sign your posts and read my post above - Mike Chapman

[Kykeydet12]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Pards:
isn't there an old saying that goes like

" those who ignore history are doomed to repeat",

or something like that.

[ephraim_zook]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

Yep, and somebody already referenced it much earlier in this thread.

Ron Myzie

Pards:
isn't there an old saying that goes like

" those who ignore history are doomed to repeat",

or something like that.

[Miche_Todd]

Re: Close Encounters of the Third Kind: Those who Despise The Hobby

I must say my all-time favorite PPP was the woman at Perryville 140 who seemed to regard us in the authentic civilian camp as some sort of gypsy tribe who made our living moving from place to place doing this sort of thing. She was especially concerned about the little boys playing in the shallow running stream (though she thought them girls, as they were still of the age to wear dresses).

I think Mike and I ran into the male counterparts to this lady. We were in civilian camp, right at the edge of the spectator walkway when two elderly gentlemen came up and asked me why on earth the coffee wasn't ready and what type of wife I was not having coffee and lunch ready for my poor husband not to mention the spectators walking by! At first I thought they were joking, but they were very serious!!!