42 Springfields

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 42 Springfields

Any slight moisture from temp change would not (by itself) be sufficient to cause the problem you are describing. What is most likely happening is that the fouling crud that has not been swabbed out is hardening in the bolster and clogging the flash channel. Those first few caps you pop aren't drying it out, but rather blasting the crud loose and re-opening the flash channel so it can be receptive to the charge. A cook-off (actually coke-off) is when burning embers of residual BP crud left in the barrel inadvertendly set off the charge when it is poured down the barrel. Very dangerous situation. A loaded round fired via a priming charge (from your cap) is not cooked off.

You hint at it when you noted that the 1842 can be more difficult to clean. This is not a design problem of the reproduction but rather a factor of the larger BP charge that goes down the barrel. The .58 rifle muskets usually take 60 gr loads, and the .69 around 80 gr. 25% more BP = 25% more fouling.Suggest you field clean your weapon before bedding down, or clean it better than you have been. If you can't field clean the barrel, then at least take the cone out and re-establish the flash channel with your vent pick.

[GWagner]

Re: 42 Springfields

Craig,

Both times this happened, it happened on what I thought was a perfectly clean musket from home. No firing before the fowling. The only variable I recall in both situations was that a cap was not popped prior to loading the first powder charge.

I will in the future remove the cone evertime I swab it out to ensure the channel is clear.

I also believe I was loading my cartridges way to small...maybe only 50 grains or so, as I was used to with the Enfield I owned. I am gonna clean her up real good, and take her out to the range with some 80 grain charges, and see how she performs.

I spoke with Del Warren today, and he adjusted my cleaning method a bit. I'll work with it and see if it happens again.

Do you recommend oiling the inside of the barrell with anything after cleaning? Del recommended a light patch of Accraguard to prevent rust, but advised to run a dry patch or two upon arriving at the event site to enure no residue from the treatment interfered with the powder.

I'll report back after Saturdays trip tot he range. I wish I could just walk out in the back yard and test it. Sheesh...neighbors!

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 42 Springfields

Well something is getting in the way of the charge. If you are trying to shoot 50-60 gr loads through that .69 bore, it is not enough powder. Up your charge to 80 gr FFg. Use good powder, you don't need Swiss brand at $25/lb but avoid that Chinese fireworks lifting powder marketed under several different brand names such as Lidu and Dragon for $8/lb. Also try switching your brand of percussion caps,some swear by Navy Arms others prefer RWS-Dynamit Nobel.I think Navy Arms are a little hotter. Plus you get 250 for about the same price as 200 of the German caps.

I use a very light coating of gun oil (Hoppes 9) on the barrel inside and out. And of course any excess oil will collect in the bolster and foul the charge, so you need to run a patch down the bore before you shoot it.

When you are cleaning your bolster (w/ cone out) you want to get all that fouling that cakes up in there removed. If it hardens it can take a drill to ream it out sometimes. Our modern percussion caps are not primed the same way as the 1860s caps which used fulminate of mercury. The compounds in use today are not water soluble and foul every bit as badly as black powder. You can pick it out with a vent pick, or use a rag to grind it out, but you should see clean metal at the bottom and a clear flash channel when you are finished. Clean the vent of the cone and put the cone back in the bolster threaded thumb tight with a little oil or grease on the threads to ensure easy removal after shooting. What product you use is less critical than being regular about it. Everybody has their favorites but I would only caution against penetrating oils like WD-40, which can be difficult to swab out of the bore and can burn. Use white lithium grease (pinhead sized dabs) on the lock internals at the friction points such where the sear engages the tumbler and the mainspring attaches to the tumbler link (stirrup). As David Fox suggests, avoid use of any animal fats like bacon grease which will burn and contain salt, which is an abrasive.Yes it is period correct and it was a bad idea that caused problems 150 yrs ago, too. Does your company have a gunsmith in residence? The army found them necessary in the 1860s, so you know they had work for them to do. If you want to carry in gun oil for a weekend event, obviously pour it out of its modern container into something period correct, The Enfield privates tool has an oil bottle in the barrel of the tool which holds more than enough, and you will always have a vent pick and a cone wrench handy as they are built into it. Very handy.

The manual for cleaning and maintenance of the US model rifle muskets instructs the soldier not to remove the cone (only a gunsmith could do it), however as stated above the material used in the percussion caps washed out then and it just accumulates in the bolster now and causes problems.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 42 Springfields

Hallo!

Just an added observation...

When you have the cone out, turn it over and look at the bottom (vent) to see whether it is what I like to call the modern "N-SSA competition style" with a very small opening, or

the more "original" style cone with a larger opening.

Because of the flash channel angles, the "N-SSA" style cones are small to begin with, and as they coke up and constrict, the flash is reduced.

I should go down and look at the Italian breech and bolster first, but I am thinking that if you are using reduced powder charges, it may be possible that
the charge may be below where the flash enters the barrel wall. Although when horizontal, the powder would tend to fall foward to the bottom of the barrel and spread- but it may be possible that the minimal powder charge is spreading out below where the flash enters and is not receiving the full blast.

Curt

[GWagner]

Re: 42 Springfields

Noted.

After running through all this in my head again, I am pretty certain during the last cleaning, I may not have removed the cone.

I will rememdy all of this at the next few events, and report back to see if all of these great suggestions relive my frustrations.

Don't get me wrong, this gun works 90% of the time with no issues.

[Benedict]

Re: 42 Springfields

All of the 1842s in our group need/ed bigger cone vents to function correctly.

[GWagner]

Re: 42 Springfields

Update...I got out my powder measures, and it appears I was running about 60 grains of 2F. Which, with a recommeded load of 70 for a 58 caliber, and 90 for a 69 caliber means I was about 30 grains short on the 69.

I am gonna roll up some 90 grain cartridges, and some 50 and 70 of 3f and go do some range testing.

[lukegilly13]

Re: 42 Springfields

I hope increasing the amount of powder will help. I usually use between 60 and 70 grains of FFF and have no problem. But here's another hint:
Store your gun muzzle down if possible after cleaning....the excess oil will drain out to the muzzle instead of accumulating in the cone. Go to wallyworld and buy a heavy steel needle (maybe a darning needle??). Make sure it is nice and long. When cleaning your musket you can use it to break loose any fowling in the channel or anything inside the cone that will not come loose with a regular nipple pick. You can store it in your housewife with your other needles and who knows..it might come in handy fixing leather or heavy clothing. Just a suggestion.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 42 Springfields

If you do drill out the cone, 1/16" is about right, 5/64 tops.

[David Fox]

Re: 42 Springfields

Muzzle down storage is a very good suggestion for anyone who would otherwise store their pieces standing on the butt.

[GWagner]

Re: 42 Springfields

My muzzleloaders are always stored muzzle down. I'll check my cone hole size. If it is less than 1/16, I may drill it out a bit. What about the flash channel? Any widening ever necessary there? Shouldn't be, right?

Thanks all for suggestions and help. This has been an informative discussion with great ideas.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: 42 Springfields

If the flash channel is not clogged with hardened debris that is usually not the culprit. One thing to check is the location of the flash channel. I know of one Euroarms Enfield that was prone to misfires and those are usually reliable, well made rifle muskets, basically copies of the old Parker Hales (you can see the PH stamp on the tumbler). The gunsmith who defarbed it was fairly well known, and said it was misused by the reenactor and refused to do anything about it, so the fellow sent it to Todd Watts out of desperation. Pulling the cone out, Watts noticed that the flash channel was mislocated (from the factory) too far back in the bolster and too small for the priming charge to find it consistently. Pretty easy fix. I have also found that to be the case sometimes on those MVTC India made Enfields (mis-drilled flash channel). Never (so far) on a repro 1842, which is a quality piece.

A couple points here:

1. A misfiring musket is remedied by ruling out any possible causes one by one, starting with the most likely and working from there. The flash channel is usually not the problem 99.9% of the time, if it is cleaned of debris. You can test it by running a white pipe cleaner through the flash channel, and then see if it comes out clean.

2. The vent of the percussion cone is usually the first place to look for blockage, followed closely by the bolster and flash channel. Dry BP is very easily ignited by the priming charge if it gets through to it in the breech. If it is not getting through (and your caps are not duds) then it is usually one of those reasons. The remedy is usually a properly sized vent (1/16) in the cone, a clean bolster and a clear flash channel. Put a new cone in the bolster at the start of each new campaign season, and save last years for a spare.

Sometimes the springs can be too weak to pop the cap, but that is very rare. Also the hammer could be misaligned so it is striking a glancing blow. Not as rare. However the majority of the time it is going to caused by a weak link in the chain reaction starting where the hammer hits the cap (the cone). If the cap is good, then check the cone, and so on from there.

[ndnchf]

Re: 42 Springfields

Several sutlers sell stainless steel cones for the '42 that come in two different vent hole sizes. When I bought my '42 it had the small vent cone and I had misfires occasionally. I switched to the larger vent version (I believe it is 1/16") and have not had a misfire since. Also the caps fit perfectly snug on these cones. This is by far my favorite musket.

Steve Blancard
13th Va. Co A.

[Benedict]

Re: 42 Springfields

Muzzle down storage is a very good suggestion for anyone who would otherwise store their pieces standing on the butt.

Why is that? Please enlighten me ;)

Thanks!

[David Fox]

Re: 42 Springfields

Let's the oily goo run away from the snail/nipple/breach area where a dry cloth won't reach when it's time to 'skin that smokewagon'. My own experience gained over fifty years of shooting muzzleloaders is that oil and grease settled in the breach area cause most mis- and hang fires.