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Mystery Musket

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  • Mystery Musket

    This weapon came out of a barn in Dinwiddie County, VA and has me a bit puzzled.

    First the barrel. I don't have a bore light but I'm presently using a flashlight to look down the tube and I can see no evidence of rifling. Was this because the rifling was worn away later when it was used as a shotgun...or is this a smooth bore Enfield? Incidentally, the barrel is the same length as an original in my hands. The rear sight is missing as well. Underneath the barrel near the breech is a "broad arrow stamp", the number "1", the initials "H B", and "R Hughes". There are some very small proof marks I believe, but they are illegible for the most part. There's also the remnants of a word that appears to have said; "ROSE'S".

    The butt plate is solid brass and the only marking I can find is two initials on the interior bottom that look like "J.H" or "J.M" or "J.N".

    There is only one barrel band but it is the "fitted" type. No screw and no place for one. It appears to be steel or iron and is marked with the letter "U" on the side. (exterior) This appears to be a Springfield band.

    The lock plate is marked with the crown behind the hammer but NO "V.R" It is also marked "TOWER" , "1861" Incidentally "TOWER" is OVER the date. And yes, it has the infamous double lines around the edge. The interior of the lock plate is well marked with "C M" , "J M", and the name "PARTRIDGE".

    The trigger guard has the letters "J B" on the interior in front of the trigger.

    The weapon sports "squared-off" escutcheons"

    The cartouche is VERY faint but looks to say "BIRMINGHAM" and the word "TRADE"

    On the opposite side of the butt is a small carved "X"

    On the wood, underneath where the trigger guard is inlaid are the faint letters "J R' or "J B". On the bottom of the stock near the butt is some word or marking but is unreadable. Also, when the lock plate is in place, there is a very discernible gap between the lock plate and the stock. Also, the forestock has been cut down.

    I have exhausted all internet options and have some savvy friends working on this but still nothing solid. Questions? Comments? Concerns? I may be reached at Remember1864@gmail.com.

    Cheers!
    John Marler
    Franklin, TN

  • #2
    Re: Mystery Musket

    Hallo!

    IMHO, you pretty much answered your own question.

    ;) :)

    It sounds like a P1853 Third Model Enfield from Birmingham SAT, later turned into a "surplus" shotgun either locally or commercially.

    Pictures would help. ;)

    Curt
    Curt Schmidt
    In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

    -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
    -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
    -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
    -Vastly Ignorant
    -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mystery Musket

      guns.zip Here are some pics...I think
      John Marler
      Franklin, TN

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mystery Musket

        Hallo!

        Sorry...

        With my feeble and non-existant computer skills, when I clicked on that link it opened into "Word" and displayed only Martian text.

        Curt
        Curt Schmidt
        In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

        -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
        -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
        -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
        -Vastly Ignorant
        -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mystery Musket

          Sorry Curt, can't find my camera-to-laptop cord so my gf downloaded them and sent them to me in a zip file. I'll try to have pics up tomorrow. One concern is the BROAD ARROW stamp on the bottom of the barrel. Didn't think this was the norm for imported weapons. UNLESS...it was a very early or pre-war import. Hope to have pics up tomorrow.
          John Marler
          Franklin, TN

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mystery Musket

            Here are the pics

            Originally posted by Curt-Heinrich Schmidt View Post
            Hallo!

            Sorry...

            With my feeble and non-existant computer skills, when I clicked on that link it opened into "Word" and displayed only Martian text.

            Curt
            Attached Files
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Matt Caldwell

            GHTI

            WIG[/FONT]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mystery Musket

              Maybe a P-1842 Percussion Musket?
              Nathan Bruff

              [email]Nbruff@gmail.com[/email]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mystery Musket

                Looks like Curt nailed it.Does appear to be a "homemade" job vs commercial as evidenced by barrel lenth and the crude forearm cut.Not a Bannerman special!
                Bud Scully 13th NJ Co.K Mess and 69th NY (N-SSA)

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                • #9
                  Re: Mystery Musket

                  Hallo

                  Thanks for getting the pics up!

                  Yup... a surplus P1853 "sporterized" into "poorman's" or "farmer's" shotgun.

                  The only thing not "kosher" to the Enfield is the M1855/M1861 type barrel band that replaces the Enfield band. It could have been an old repair to replace the lost one, or a collector or antique replaced the missing band in say 1961.

                  More times than not, and I do not know why, when one finds a "poorman's" shotgun, they tend to be Springfields. Considering the numbers of Enfields around at the end of the War, IMHO it is strange there are not more.
                  But it may lend some credence to the old stories about them making corduroy roads out of them or filling in puddles in dirt roads.

                  ;) :)

                  It is a nice study in the various parts makers, assemblers, and sub-inspectors that is missing on our reproduction Enfields.

                  Curt
                  Curt Schmidt
                  In gleichem Schritt und Tritt, Curt Schmidt

                  -Hard and sharp as flint...secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.
                  -Haplogroup R1b M343 (Subclade R1b1a2 M269)
                  -Pointless Folksy Wisdom Mess, Oblio Lodge #1
                  -Vastly Ignorant
                  -Often incorrect, technically, historically, factually.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mystery Musket

                    Some day I will get around to posting pictures, but I have a Robin & Lawrence mississippi rifle that was turned into a fowler. The barrel bands were removed, nuts welded to the bottom of the barrel, ban springs filled in with wood, and holes drilled to have the barrel attach with pins circa the old brown bess muskets. It was re-bored to be a smooth bore.
                    Brad Ireland
                    Old Line Mess
                    4th VA CO. A
                    SWB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mystery Musket

                      Curt nailed it, that is a B'ham contract P53...to answer the question of why there are not more Enfields found in barns like this one...One possible reason is that most of the best P53s were sold back into the gun trade to help reduce the crushing war debt, and converted to Snider Breechloaders post bellum.
                      Craig L Barry
                      Editor, The Watchdog, a non-profit 501[c]3
                      Co-author (with David Burt) Suppliers to the Confederacy
                      Author, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy
                      Member, Company of Military Historians

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