"Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

[Dutchman Dick]

Hi, all! I recently purchased this gun:



It is an 1842 musket that was converted into a civilian shotgun, most likely some time after the war ended. The barrel was cut back to 33 inches with a shotgun bead near the muzzle, and is marked "1851" on the tang. There are also two sets of stampings on it: a large "P" over "V", and a smaller "P3" over "P". There is an inspector's cartouche on the left side of the stock but I can't tell for sure what it is ("EC"?). It also has the original ramrod, shortened to match the barrel. The lock is marked "SPRINGFIELD 1848" and has the eagle-over-US ahead of the hammer. Overall condition appears to be well-used, but not abused, and the lock is still solid, functional, and with clear markings.

I bought the gun mainly as an interesting historical shooter. I have my Todd Watts reworked Nepalese type II P1853 Enfield for a re-enactment gun. But I'm wondering, would it be worthwhile having the gun restored to its original military configuration (barrel stretched, new stock, etc.), or would I have more money into it, when all was said and done, than I would another 1842 in original configuration?

[Jimmayo]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

I would enjoy it just like it is.

[Todd Watts]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

You'd need a new stock, new nose band, new barrel, etc. The gun essentially would be totally new excelt the lock and trigger to "restore" it. You could further modify it and cut it even shorter to be a cool cavalry shotgun/carbine. Blockade Runner has an original '42 cut down like that but yours has an even shorter stock. You also can simply get it shootable and use it like it is. Lots of shotguns got used during the war, so that one could be used for that illustration even though it was more than likely sporterized after the war.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

I would get an older repro 1842 and rebuild it using the lock, trigger/trigger guard and butt plate from this one. You can nicely dress up a repro 42 pumpkin slinger with a few original parts, and have a unique and excellent functioning (re)enactor gun.

[David Fox]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

I respectfully disagree. 'Pears to me two replacement barrel bands and springs, a rear swivel, Hoyt or Whitacre stretching and lining the existing barrel, a replaced forearm (splice hidden under the rear band) a rammer, and you've brought the old girl back, both a worthy goal and a useful satisfaction.

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

Are there any known examples of 1842 muskets that were sporterized like this BEFORE the war, or during?

Also, how much money are we likely looking at, versus the cost of an unaltered 1842 in similar condition?

And does this gun have any sort of collector value as-is? I paid $500 for it, BTW; no idea what an unaltered gun would cost.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

Hallo!

IMHO...

What a gun is "worth" is a combination of its "market value" and the value the owner gets from it regardless of the price.

So, how much money one wants or is willing and able to put into a restoration project versus the cost of the gun before the scales "tip" with the cost of an original not needing to be restored is an individual choice.

NUG, cut down "poorman" or "farmer's" "shotguns" are often cannibalized for the value of their parts- especially those that have had their barrels shortened and require more than just a forestock splice, barrel band/nosecap.

Were it mine, I would weigh the cost of restoring it versus the cost of restoring it's condition to an ability to be used for reenacting. Then weighing the cost and desireability to use its restored parts to enhance a repro
M1842.

And last, we tend to have a "bias" toward "unbuggered" guns because they have a more direct and plausible connection to the history of the Civil War.
Meaning, while there is history in a "poorman's shotgun" from the 1870's-1900ish era, we do not value it as much.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Todd Watts]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

I doubt you can restore the 33" cut-down barrel out to 42" where it should be. "Stretching" may gleen a tad but 9" is more than a tad unless you go to welding a new barrel end on it but then you are looking at more professional machining work than I think would be worth it (personally). A new barrel will cost around $200 for a beater repro, like a Armi Sport if you can locate one that is not in terrible shape. A Whitacre barrel would be fantastic, but again rather costly. You can indeed salvage the lock, trigger unit metal, rear band and buttplate and add to a repro to along with some other original parts that can be located and have a mostly "original" gun, or live with what it has become as an example of a cut-down gun. We do know that some guns were indeed cut-down before or during the war, but since the guys that did this did not engrave dates of alteration we can't verify for sure when these alterations were done. A lot of the old muskets blew muzzles apart during the war and had to be cut-back to get them back into service. An Enfield at the Gettysburg collection is evidently one such weapon as its muzzle is a good 2" shorter than other Enfields, coming right back to the sight. Shoving the muzzle in the dirt and then firing would blow the muzzle as would starting a ball but not ramming it in the heat of battle. A regimental armorer or artificer would very easily be able to get that gun back into service with a file saw so it was done. I doubt there are any surviving detailed records of this being done, but there are not any records of the guys tying their shoes with bow knots either.;)

The Blockade Runner has a really cool cut-down 1855 US model that was unearthed in a collapsing river bank on the Duck River north of Tullahoma, TN several years ago. It is a prime example of a cavalry-altered infantry arm, being cut back just ahead of the rear band. Bragg's line ran all along that area in Jan 1863-Jun 1863 and it is more likely than not from one of his cavalry troopers. US cavalry was in the area afterwards and it was patrolled throughout the war by cavalry of both sides, so it is possible it came from just about any force roving by, but in the same area there are still unearthed CS camp relics so that tends to point toward it being a CS carbine. I wonder why it was cut down. Maybe it was just issued in standard length to a cavalryman who altered it himself after having to fight it in the saddle one too many times, or perhaps it was a damaged gun that was cut back past the damage. Like the BRi's cut-down 1842 model, I wonder who,when,why it was cut down. But it would make a mean saddle carbine!

[Jimmayo]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

And does this gun have any sort of collector value as-is? I paid $500 for it, BTW; no idea what an unaltered gun would cost.

M-1842s start at around 1000 for one in poor condition. If you want an original, M-1822s can be bought in decent shape for around 1000 to 1200 and an imports can be had even cheaper. There were more of M1822s used than the 42 model.

[Dutchman Dick]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

Well, as I said, I have my Enfield for a re-enactment gun (THANKS AGAIN, TODD! GREAT JOB!!! :D). After due consideration, I think I'll just keep it as a shotgun. It's still a neat gun, after all...

[Minieball577]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

David Fox is right on target. "Stretching" a barrel is not really stretching a barrel. It really involves boring our the remaining barrel and lining it with the upper portion of the liner being "thicker" than the portion inserted in the original barrel. Then, once they are joined, the upper portion is turned to match original external dimension, thus restoring the barrel, inside and out, and preserving the perfectly original breech and markings. I have a Lorenz that was done this way by Bob Hoyt, and you cannot tell it was ever shortened.

I would go with what David recommends.

[Blair]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

I would agree with both Dave and you Chris.
A barrel sleeve and streching cost about $225. from either Dan or Bobby. About $90.00 for a forearm. Original '42 front band can be price if you can find them, but you could go with a repro here. The middle bands and band spring and swivels might run about another $100.00.
A total of about $400 to $425 and you can have everything you need to restore an original firearm.

[minieball]

Re: "Civvied" 1842 musket: Worth restoring, or not?

Put my vote with David, Chris and Blair on this one.

Another option for a cut down M1842 besides restoring it to standard M1842 configuration is to make a CS arsenal rework out of it. Both the Macon and Richmond arsenals did well-documented modification/repairs of battlefield salvaged arms including the M1842 musket. There is the Richmond Arsenal modified M1842 musket made into a cavalry musketoon with the "pinched" front sight, stock mounted rear sling swivel and a 24" barrel as well as three types of reworked salvaged M1842's from the Macon arsenal in 30", 34" and 36" barrel lengths.