Attention Georgia Authentics

[Eric Burke]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

Tenfed, about the holocaust ... its way overdone. Its gotten to the point that last year in my US History II class (covering the years after the Civil War), the Second World War was covered in about 30 minutes and the Holocaust took a week and a half. My history book this year doesn't have any photograph of the war in the entire book except for Hitler standing in front of the Eifel Tower after the occupation. The beginning of the chapter has a full page illustration of a Jew with a star on his jacket.

My school district has literally replaced the Second World War with the Holocaust. I agree it needs to be taught, but not to the degree of giving it historical importance over the war itself. It's not like we went to Europe so that we could liberate concentration camps.

[KarinTimour]

Dear Eric:

Actually, there are a lot of Jewish veterans who'd take exception to that -- many of them enlisted precisely to liberate concentration camps.

A veteran I know well enlisted to fight Hitler's Final Solution -- I don't know if he knew about the concentration camps per se when he enlisted, but he did know that Hitler was trying to starve the Jews to death by restricting them from working. He is Mr. Worley, my AP English teacher my last year in high school (and incidentally one of the greatest teachers it's ever been my pleasure to meet). Not only is he not Jewish, he's an agnostic who knows his Bible better than just about anyone I ever met.

He is a WWII veteran and a conscientious objector. Because he opposed what Hitler was doing, he wanted to help the war effort. But his beliefs about killing kept him from being a fighting soldier. So he enlisted as a medic. Thinking about it now, I don't know how he got through basic training -- because he's as stubborn as they come. After supporting his unit across Europe, he was one of the Americans to arrive at the liberation of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

Perhaps FDR didn't go to war to fight concentration camps, but as I"m sure your study of the Civil War is teaching you, the motivations of leaders and the motivations of individual soldiers aren't always identical.

Sincerely,
Karin TImour
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[billwatson]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

Look, it's always been like that in school. I loved history and social studies and all that, and all through high school I'd take the books and have them read by the end of September. There was never enough in there, but there was a library in the town where my parents worked and after school I'd hoof it over there and see what I could find to supplement the stuff that had piqued my interest in the textbooks.

I'm not defending politically correct stuff, but you know there is a thing called editing that can boil anything down into attractive, tantalizing slices of insight. It doesnt' sound like that's what some of you are seeing in American history class, but the thought that you could get to the core insights on the Civil War in two weeks of class doesn't strike me as out of the question. And from there, if it's interesting, you wing out on your own, aided not just by a small-town library, but by the resources that the Internet puts at your disposal -- college level programs and research that are a few keystrokes away.

I think I'm saying don't spend energy bemoaning what you aren't being offered, just go take that energy and get it for yourself.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/avalon.htm There's a site just chock full of original documents -- you can read the original declarations of secession in there. Doesn't get any better than that.

http://valley.vcdh.virginia.edu/

The Valley of the Shadow --- two communities in the Civil War. I'd have killed to have something like this at my disposal in 1965, when we were in the Centennial of the war and just couldn't get enough.

Don't let the little people hold down your mind. Just go around them and leave them in their little worlds. Yours is as big as you want to make it.

End of sermon. :-)

Bill, sign your posts - Mike Chapman

[TeamsterPhil]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

Katie Vogel's post seems to have become a lightning rod. She is one of the best & brightest high school students I have met in the last couple of decades. What might have been taken as her "lamenting" about the state of her school was simply reporting. She (and I'm sure many other H.S. students) are taking the bull by the horns in spite of budget & curriculum restraints and doing the hard work it takes to become a well educated adult. We need to be careful to not lump all teens into one basket, just as we shouldn't do to any one.

Phil Campbell

[Ridge Runner]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

At my former HS (separated by one year). We were on a Block schedule (4-1 1/2 classes a day) And they only offered one US history course! It was to cover from settlement, to modern America! They covered up to the early development of our Government, then jumped to Reconstruction. They spent a total of Approximately 30mins of 19th century politics to give background to the Reconstruction! My graduating class was lucky enough to be offered a US history class through a local tech school (along with several other college courses including Biology, and English). It was a two semester course that followed a normal college schedule. Most took the class just for college credit, not for the actual class, 90% would have taken the other class if this one wasnt college credit. The adjustment of what the US history course came with the block schedule. Even though you have the same class room time in a normal 8 class day with 90mins, and a 4 class day with 180mins. It allowed for a student to take more classes a year! So the former US history class was 2 semesters long! Not anly are the History courses being affected, but also the fine arts programs. With the ever competitive college acceptance process, more students are taking the extra honors, AP, and dual credit courses, instead of the fine arts classes! Last year in our school we had approx. 600 students in my HS, out of that only about 100 enrolled in a fine arts program during the year, prior to the Block Schedule that number was 300% higher! We had an award winning marching band, now it is half of its former size, made up of 60% middle schoolers. And we once had a traveling chorus that competed up and down the east coast, now no one is in our chorus! So not only are the History courses getting hit hard with different types of schedules, but other programs. Many of the principles of educational theorist like John Dewey are getting abandoned, Many students are being forced to choose a technical education, an academic one, or an artistic one! Its becoming a more of a rare thing for a student to have a well rounded education! Students are either academic students, academic, or artistic!.... But I can pinpoint to decline of the history curriculum at my school to the Block Schedule! Now our local School Board has said over and over that the block schedule allows for more quality teaching time, but I really cant see how the loss of many important educational princples are worth, MORE quality educational time, when at least the old way allowed for quality time, just not as much!

Roman Fox

[YankRI]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

By reading some of the posts on this thread on teaching history in today's classrooms, as well as threads with a similar modern "political" bent, it would appear that our great states in the South are being overrun by "liberals". Say it ain't so! Such invective reminds me of the Chris Rock bit where he talks about all the white males who cry about how "they" are losing everything - to which Mr. Rock responds, "If they're losing, who's winning? Cuz it sure ain't us!" (i.e., the black man). But I digress.

While I realize that the neo-conservative view is well-represented in the hobby, I suspect that there are plenty of others like myself that don't share it. And that's fine. It's what makes the world go 'round. I only mention it here because those that disparage people like me on the left seem to be able to do so with impunity on this forum. Personally, I can take it and if that's considered acceptable fodder for this forum, so be it. However, if this forum is about improving our impressions and our knowledge, why all the political name-calling? Does it cross the line of civility recently re-emphasized here? Or, if it is not a question of civility, then perhaps the question should relate to the germaneness of such diatribes. Put another way, at what point does a legitimate discussion with modern overtones become illegitimate for the purposes of the A/C forum?

Respectfully, I am

[Miche_Todd]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

I think I'm saying don't spend energy bemoaning what you aren't being offered, just go take that energy and get it for yourself.


Don't let the little people hold down your mind. Just go around them and leave them in their little worlds. Yours is as big as you want to make it.

I agree with Phil, anyone that knows Katie would never accuse her of bemoaning anything!! She is an extremely bright young girl, in fact I wish there were more teenagers out there like her and I wouldn't worry so much about the state of the world and the future. She will be starting at Loyola University in the fall, and works in whatever spare time that she manages to have in a museum! I wish I had her initiative when I was 18!!! I am also glad to see a response from someone that is actually still in the school system to give us a balanced view of the issue. I am so out of touch with what was taught when I was in school. Jeez! I barely remember it....
:tounge_sm

[KarinTimour]

Thoughts on Schools and What to do about them

Folks:

We've had a number of people put some good things on this thread. First of all, I agree whole heartedly with Jim that we all have a role to play in turning what is happening in the schools around.

I also think that Bill Watson's sanity is so refreshing. Want to hear what I learned about the Civil War in public school? Zip. Every time we got close, we'd get to Lincoln's election the week of Christmas break. When we came back in January, it would be the turn of the century and the Depression was right around the corner. What I learned about the War I got from all our family vacations -- my parents have always wanted to be world travellers -- then they had four children. They still travelled, but we were restricted by economics to the southern 48. But they would map out their two weeks of vacation like other people look at bulb catalogues in January. And National Parks are free or low cost, so I learned the War geographically the first time.

Bill's advice is sound -- don't get stuck trying to get those people in the schools to give you what you want. Think of it as like the "all you can eat buffet" -- take a taste of a lot of stuff, then hit the library for info on the stuff you like a lot.

Why are the schools emphasizing only math and reading? These things go in cycles -- right now the belief in Washington is that we need to "return to the basics -- math and reading and standardized testing" -- so they cut all the funding for everything else. I worked for 3 months as the head of the state and federal grantmaking department for the NYC Board of Education. For those of you who don't follow these things with breathless interest, there are national and state grants that are awarded competatively to school districts across the nation to provide money for stuff like reading preparation, early literacy intervention, etc. When the new adminstration came in, they just wiped the board of all the grants and the only money going was for a) reading; b) math, c) standardized testing. And you're seeing the results on the local level.

What can you do?

First, go do some school visits. When was the last time you were in your local schools?

Second, think seriously about going to talk to some teachers in those schools. How can you help bring our period alive? Depending on your credentials, and the local requirements, you might be able to talk your way in the door to do some experimental school projects.

Third, keep in mind that school is not the only place, or even the best place for learning. Is there an afterschool program in your area that could use some volunteers? What about a Girls or Boys Club? Boy or Girl Scouts? Many of these organizations would be thrilled to have someone with your skills and equipment come by once a year to talk to the kids about our period.

Fourth, the public library -- when is their story hour? If you don't know, call them and ask. Could you come in uniform and read a book or a chapter of a book to some children? Do they have a junior high or teens book club you could talk to?

Fifth, Duke was just talking on another thread about a presenation that he is doing to the men's group at his church. Can you get a thought provoking discussion going in a Sunday school or adult Sunday school presentation about some of the ethical dilemmas involved in the War? What about the role of religion as a solace to the leaders of the US and the Confederacy?

Sixth, don't do this in a vacuum -- take someone else along with you and get them to do part of the presentation. Each one teach one, then there will be two of you out talking about history and our period.

Seventh, when was the last time you went to a school board meeting? Call a teacher or the local principal, tell them you are concerned that the teaching of history be involved in your schools. Ask them for suggestions of ways that you can help. My experience is that many teachers are caring professionals who are stressed to the max because our families are fraying and the schools are expected to take up the slack in so many areas that they can't fight their way free to teach. Take a teacher to lunch and you'll get an earful of ways you can help.


I could go on, but you get my drift.....

The problem (and the opportunity) of living in a democracy is that it's a giant do-it-yourself project. Over and over again I have seen it to be true that even one determined person can make a difference. Get up away from the computer and go do any of the steps above or something else that I didn't think of to address this problem.

Until you try, you have no idea what is possible.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[billwatson]

Lamentations

I didn't have Miss Katie specifically in mind, in fact all I had in mind was the tone of several posts in this fine thread that did indeed seem to me to be lamentations and cloth tearing over the pathetic state of affairs in public high school education.

Ideology in education? This is not a new thing. Folks want to teach values -- their own, whether political or religious or cultural. Whose values shall it be? I kinda subscribe to the radical theory that education ought to concentrate on teaching you how to think logically and usefully, and building your mental muscles for the endless task of sorting out the crap in a world that is funneling more of it your way every day.

[tenfed1861]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

Personally I'll be doing a talk on the common trooper in acouple of weeks for my class.
I feel the same way with Katie.It's not just the AP courses,it's also the sports.We have enough money to buy the sports teams new uniforms every year,but not enough for new books.And our special ed. program just plain sucks waste water.In my Algebra II class,we were using Alg. I books.I'm a senoir and only have an 8th grade English education.The school trys to send every sp.ed. student over to the Trade school so we can "have training for the real world",while they don't for the GT students.The AP kids wonder why I worry about my future. :angry_smi I must say that if the NEA is supporting this,I say get rid of it,and I'm a "leftie"(for the righties,I respect your views.I agree our history is taught poorly).
I read that only 13% of special ed. students graduate college.That scares me and worries me. :cry_smile.
I guess I needed to get something off my chest.
Cullen Smith
Bluegrass Rifles
tenfed1861@yahoo.com

[DonSmithnotTMD]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

ya know maybe those antebellum folks were on to something.

The few elementary texts I have seen actually covered a lot of modern high school subjects.

I bet if we got away from the lowest common denominator, we might get a few surprises.

Don Smith

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: Attention Georgia Authentics

Another problem with our public schools is that they teach to the lowest common denominator. The teachers goal is to keep the kids who are falling behind up to a minimal level. To do this, they must dumb down the curricullum and few or no special programs for high achievers or excelling students. I asked my children's principal how many kids flunked last year. He replied "none". NONE! So, EVERYONE passed and no one flunked?! What a crock! Now the poor students get pushed up with the achieving students and further hold them back. This attempt to uphold every child's delicate self-esteem is destroying our schools. Good work should be rewarded and bad work should have consequences. I don't give the public school system much hope...especially how poorly the teachers are paid. I know I supplement my children's education at home. We try to keep them at least a year ahead of the school curriculum. We are also very open and honest in debunking any politically correct clap trap the kids bring home. I also have noticed that many of our neighbors suffer from affluenza. Both parents work to afford a high lifestyle and their kids get overlooked and forgotten in the shuffle. There is not much teachers can do if the parents don't care.

Regards,
Jim Butler

[billwatson]

No Child Left Behind

Jim, it sounds like your school system won't have to worry about a state takeover of the system because some kids aren't making it under the Bush administration's education initiative, No Child Left Behind. Sounds like a classic case of redefining the standards to avoid solving the problem -- but, to be fair, in response to a problem that is artificial. How do you keep kids with learning disabilities "not left behind," ie., up to the same snuff as the kids in regular classes? Lip service to the idea that all children are capable of the same level of accomplishment won't get it done. Changing what's expected of all children will. So your observation about what's going on is probably right on the mark.

FYI, Pennsylvania teachers are consistently the highest paid or near highest paid in the nation, and the situation here is identical. There are two school system in my county, out of four, that are at some level of unsatisfactory performance.

History is only one area of public education where there is uproar. It makes what we do, when do it right and when we do it for outside consumption rather than inside-the-pastime satisfaction, so important.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: No Child Left Behind

Bill,

I loathe the idea that all children MUST be educated. If the child is a consistent and serious disruption and/or the parents won't do their part to help the child excel or behave, the school should not be forced to try to educate them. In defense of my children's school, they do try to pull kids out several hours a week for excellerated or remedial classes (although the excellerated resources are very small vs. the remedial resources. This is one answer, to try to group kids by skill level and not so much by grade only. Life is not fair and won't be very forgiving. The sooner kids learn that hard work and achievement will be rewarded and sloth and stupidity will not be patronized the better off we will be. I continue to urge my kid's teachers to continue to challenge them even if I don't expect that will do much of it. But I refuse to accept sub par education for my kids because other parents put no priority on the education of theirs. It is also hard to respect a society that is popping prozacs and ritalin like candy and owning two big SUVs and keeping up with the 'Jones' is more important than their kids education. This problem is just part of the bigger problem...government trying to succeed at any program (government never wants to actually fix any problem). Too many beaurocrats, administrators, leftist revisionists, rightist fundamentalists and politicians getting their hands on the money and curriculum before it gets to the actual school. Vouchers would not solve all problems, but would be a great inprovement. Privatizing and letting capitalism drive success usually has better results. Off my soapbox now.
Regards,
Jim Butler