Original (?) CS jacket photos

[Michael Comer]

Here is a link to an auction site. The claim is that this is an original shell jacket. There are lots of photos to peruse and I thought some good discussion might get started about this. Photos show a lot of the details of the coat. I'd like to hear some opinions.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=149476598

[Secesh]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Looks like an old Jarnagin jacket from the late 1980's....

[Cpt Boone]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

The modern machine button holes and the hand written 40 for size tell me modern manufacture. No sign of any hand sewing anywhere and there should be some, especially the button holes. Plus the stripes are machine sewn on. Not an $18,000 coat, maybe $50 and that's pushing it.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Yes, my original thought was that it might be about 50 years old from the centennial, but I'm thinking probably not even that.

[Mcouioui]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

The topstitching jumps in eyes as something modern ;)

[David Fox]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

This brings back unfortunate memories of purchasing an "original" Nashville Plow Works sabre from an outfit located in Bristol perhaps 20 years ago. I ate the loss. It was a valuable, though expensive lesson. Wonder if it could be the same purveyor. I knew Bill Albaugh slightly. I don't recall that he held himself out as expert in cloth items. His knowledge of belt plates and the like left something to be desired, too.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Not a chance that's original. I've seen one or two surviving post-war Confederate veteran jackets that look like that in material, configuration, and construction.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SqhhJb_P3Kk/SRoDxsJ56bI/AAAAAAAAC3w/4U0b4hc6IrM/s1600-h/Veterans+Day+photo.jpg

[tnyankee]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Even if this was an original, I think my biggest complaint towards many collectors (not all) is how they handle original items. I have met too many folks that don't take care of them right. Look at how the coat is just draped over that bench... putting way too much stress on an already torn item and that obviously has old and weak material. Even at places like the civil war show you see uniforms that are just hung by their collars on a display case. Truly sad, and I wish I could save them all!

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Tony,

Not to hijack this thread but I think you would be more disgusted to see how original clothing and artifacts are handled at many public museums. The scant money they receive annually can sometimes barely heat the place, let alone allow for proper conservation of their collection. I know of one historic site (not just a museum, but a several acre plot of land with several buildings) that received just $50 in state money for an entire year. Not even enough to keep a single bathroom operational.

As with everything it varies by individuals. I have seen collectors who treat their collection with only the utmost care, and have seen museums where precious clothing has been devoured by moths and are crawling with silverfish, (I've even had one curator tell me he hopes to never get another artifact donation because they have far more than they can take care of already.) And I'm sure the reverse of the situations is true in some cases. By and large, however, I find that people that have invested their hard earned money into expensive artifacts take very good care of them.

I think likely the seller of this jacket has little to nothing invested in it, and is treating it as such.

[tnyankee]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Dan,
You took the words right out of my mouth and I couldn't agree with you more... I think you pretty much got to my point before I did! Thanks!

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

anybody notice the iteresting MSJ style pillows at the waist?? never seen that on a CS jacket...

[Bob McDonald]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

This triggers memories across near 50 years!

"EAVES", as stamped on the rear lining, refers to the Eaves Costume Co. of NY, NY, which was actually founded in 1863! By 1961, it had already been well explored by ACW-savvy collectors and the very few dealers of the day. (Eaves actually did have some fine Federal surplus stuff but, of course, so did Bannerman, H. K. White, and Stokes-Kirk in Philly at that time.)

I'd estimate the jacket to date from the 1920's to 1950's, with probable Hollywood origin. Given their rather odd manner of attachment, I'd wager the buttons were added considerably later, probably when the jacket had become "original." (The top eagle button is certainly original, and the CS infantry I's may be also - making the buttons worth more than the garment.)

Bill Albaugh certainly knew enough about original coats to have spotted this ringer! In fact, during the 70's and 80's he got into at least a couple deals on CS officers' frocks.

Walt Nichols was a fellow who, in the mid-1980's, suddenly decided he wanted to get into CS uniforms in a big way and fast, and that's precisely how he got 'em. (It was bloody harrowing to watch!)

Uuumm, I don't believe I'll bid.


Cheers,

Bob McDonald

[Remember1864]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

I am NO expert on ACW uniforms. I know a "little" about this aspect or that. I've read many of the same research articles as most of you have. With that in mind, I looked at the photos of this item FIRST; before reading any replies/postings. As I looked at the many pictures I was reminded not of what I've seen at the MOC or other museums. Rather, I harkened back to two particular movies..."The Horse Soldiers", and yes..."Gone with the Wind". Imagine my surprise when I DID review the thread and find my concerns were substantiated. My point being this; if I, a real novice on uniforms take issue with said jacket, how are they gonna bamboozle a collector into buying it. Furthermore...$18,000.00? I believe anyone with that kind of cash buying a Confederate coat would know full well exactly what they were getting into. Odd what one can see on the internet.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

I'm not sure a well-versed collector is who is targeted with this offer. It is also possible that the seller actually thinks he's really got something here.

I posted the link because it could very easily fool someone that is not that knowledgeable in the subject. You've got a claim that it's from a museum collection, a claim that there's an expert involved - whether or not he is doesn't really matter as long as the perception is there, and you've got a really old looking jacket that to the untrained eye could be the real thing.

Hopefully someone without as much time in the hobby or subject can learn from the photos and the comments and not be a victim of some Ebayer with a belt buckle with a minie ball in it or some such rot.

[PaulJ]

Re: Original CS jacket photos

Hi,
I certainly wouldn't part with any of my money for the jacket - especially after Bob McDonald appears to have delivered the 'death blow'! However, whilst I would agree it does have the farby 'Gone with the Wind' look to it I wouldn't necessarily use that to dismiss the jacket at first glance. I've attached a couple of pictures, the first is a jacket from a reputable dealer (Old South Military Antiques, examined by Les Jensen - discussed at length in a previous thread), the second a period photo.

Regards