Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

[jjszabo]

Hello Folks:)

I am sewing a Federal Enlisted Sack coat. This is my second coat. My first coat was a W&W sack coat kit that I sewed too small (Great kit with Great customer service - My stupid fault).

Therefore I am trying it again with a Galla Rock pattern (no flames please).

I am making a muslin jacket first to check the fit and finish of the pattern. Everythng is going together fine until I tried to fit the collar. The collar is too big (as in too long). As I was attaching the collar to the main body, there seems to be too much ease. I need to adjust the collar and want to know how much ease should I put into the collar. The collar from W&W didn't seem to have that much ease. Any help would be appreciated.

Also, this pattern looks more like a JT Martin pattern than a Schuylkill Arsenal pattern. My pattern has a four piece under collar and and rounded collar. Otherwise, it's a four piece body, two piece lining (that I cut as a single liner with the middle seam allowance removed), two piece sleeve, with muslin lining.

I already bought County Cloth fatigue blouse flannel and wool flannel lining. I don't wnat to screw up again with this expensive fabric.

Should I just go and buy County Cloth pattern? I am fairly close to the Needle and Thread or should I try and adjust this pattern?

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff Sabol

[wade03]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Hey,
Well for one, keep in mind that the muslin mock up will behave differently compared to the actual wool one. Are you cutting the collar pieces on the bias? If not that may be your problem. But if you need to shorten the collar just work with the mock up piece and cut from the center and re draft it with matching lines. The collar should have ease so it lays down flat and doesn't constantly stick up. Of course I'm sure originals didn't work perfectly either so any mistakes like that maybe be period but I completely understand you wanting to get a good fit since you paid all that money.

As for what manufacturer the pattern is portraying, don't pay attention to the piecing under the collar, that is typical of just making a sack coat with fabric saving in mind. Rather, Martin sack coats will have narrow cuff vents and facings. The pockets are rounded and one of the surviving Martin sacks has non symmetrical corners on the front skirts.

Happy Sewing!

[estephenson]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Jeff, the Gala Rock pattern has a few issues, I would strongly recommend getting the County Cloth pattern. You should also look up the CMH journal article on Fatigue Blouses to better understand the SA coat.

http://www.military-historians.org/company/journal/journal.htm

[rpierson]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

DON'T EASE THE COLLAR. If it doesn't fit, it isn't a great pattern.

Cut the collar down at the seam in the back. When constructed (both collar halves + interlining), the collar should be about 1.5" from the RAW front of the body. Keeping in mind that you will sew the collar to the body BEFORE you join the lining to the body outer. Be sure to only sew the under collar to the body as you will need the top free to tuck the lining under it and fell it closed. Also, when cutting the under collar, be sure to do it on the bias. It won't lay right if you don't.

good luck!

-R. Pierson

p.s. The only true easing that should occur on a gov't blouse is in the sleeve cap.

[estephenson]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

The article is in the Summer 95 issue of CMH journal.

A-2901 Paul McKee Notes on the Federal Issue Sack Coat 47 2 50

[PanzerJager]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Also, this pattern looks more like a JT Martin pattern than a Schuylkill Arsenal pattern. .

I have seen this pattern and there are some serious issues with it. I wonder if whoever drafted this pattern ever looked at an original SA sack coat, I have a sneaking suspicion they looked at photos of original sack coats and cobbled together a pattern calling it an SA coat. The give away to me is the collar piecing, this is distinct to a known J.T. Martin coat, the photos of which are posted on the Wedeward website, it is also the same sack coat that was for sale in the John Henry auction. A friend was trying to use this pattern and had the same collar issues you did as well as issues with the arms fitting into the arm scythe. Personally, if you have invested in good materials I would suggest a different pattern unless you plan to do some serious alterations on the one you already have. I've put together quite a few sack coats and in the end ended up drafting my own SA pattern as I found problems with all the ones on the market.

Regards,

[August77]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

I have seen this pattern and there are some serious issues with it. I wonder if whoever drafted this pattern ever looked at an original SA sack coat, I have a sneaking suspicion they looked at photos of original sack coats and cobbled together a pattern calling it an SA coat. The give away to me is the collar piecing, this is distinct to a known J.T. Martin coat, the photos of which are posted on the Wedeward website, it is also the same sack coat that was for sale in the John Henry auction. A friend was trying to use this pattern and had the same collar issues you did as well as issues with the arms fitting into the arm scythe. Personally, if you have invested in good materials I would suggest a different pattern unless you plan to do some serious alterations on the one you already have. I've put together quite a few sack coats and in the end ended up drafting my own SA pattern as I found problems with all the ones on the market.

Seth is dead on! Sherri from Galla Rock is great and I think it's cool that she can put out patterns with multiple sizes for under $20, but the SA blouse needs some work. I am about to pull out a lot of hand stitching on the one I'm working on because things are not coming out right, mainly the collar. I'm not sure what the deal with the pocket is either. The extra piece of blouse flannel is unnecessary as you should just sew the lining in as the pocket. I would suggest getting your hands on as many resources as possible (the CMH article, For Fatigue Purposes, any originals you can examine, etc.) before cutting into your cloth. Chances are your going to need to make adjustments on any pattern you use.

[jjszabo]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Thank you Gentlemen.

This is all great information. My questions have been answered - along with additional information.

Just so you all know, I have looked at about every sack coat picture avalable on the net, along with reproductions from Daley, W&W, ********, etc..... I've researched this project for months before I started. I really want to do this right. I am not new to sewing albeit I am not a veteran either. I started with a pair of drawers, then a type II shelter (both halves) and then a shirt and now this blouse. I am working my way up to a frock coat.

I really would like to draft my own pattern, but I cannot find the book by Louis DeVere's "Handbook of Practical Cutting on the Centre Point System" (ca. 1866). as recommended by Mr. Jim Ruley over at the "Sewing Academy" forum. Amazon has one copy for $244.00 Soooo.......I am left with the available commercial patterns.

I went into this knowing I would have to make alterations to the muslin fit-up. I already know that the armseye needs adjusting to fit my frame and now this collar needs fixing. I am using the tailoring book," Classic Tailoring Techniques: A Construction Guide for Men's Wear" to help with the pattern adjustments. For example, Classic Tailoring Techniques states to wait till the jacket body is together before cutting the sleeves out of the sleeve fabric. You need to measure the armseye and then use that measurement plus 1 to 1.5 inches (ease) to adjust the sleeve cap on the pattern. This keeps the sleeve cap from having too much material.

Mr. Lomas - I agree on the pocket....I ignored the extra pocket material and was planning on sewing the pocket towards the end. I also ignored the sleeve construction until after I get the body together. The lining is suppose to be one piece as all the examples I have seen, so I adjusted the lining pattern (removd the 1/2 inch seam allowance - which is actually subtracting 1 inch) and cut on the fold where the seam allowance would have been. This seemed to work.

Thanks again for the help. If you all don't mind, I might be needing your help again.

Warmest regards,

Jeff Sabol

[estephenson]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Jeff, One more note, you seem to be doing a lot of tailoring to the coat, and not mocking up an original. You may want to try to mimic the fit as the sack coat came in 4 standard sizes and would have not fit perfectly on anyone. Pick a standardized size and make it to that and not your body. I found an older thread on here that deals with this.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11527&highlight=sack+coat+sizes

[jjszabo]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Jeff, One more note, you seem to be doing a lot of tailoring to the coat, and not mocking up an original. You may want to try to mimic the fit as the sack coat came in 4 standard sizes and would have not fit perfectly on anyone. Pick a standardized size and make it to that and not your body. I found an older thread on here that deals with this.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...ack+coat+sizes

Mr Stephenson, I can't agree more.:)

I am a size 44 but I am sewing a size 46. The blouse has lots of "room" for the period look - but the pattern has mistakes. It's the mistakes that need tailoring.

Thanks for your help:D It is truely appreciated.

Jeff Sabol

[jjszabo]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

OK - I am finished! Take a look at the pictures (lighting is not showing the color correctly - it is not purple). Let me know what you think?!? Be gentle, this is my second SA fatigue blouse. All hand sewn. Now I know why hand sewn garments are so expensive. I have a new appreciation of the work that goes into hand sewing one of these garments. The sewing machine was used to sew basting stitches. The basting stitches were pulled out once the hand sewing was completed.

I used County Cloth flannel wool that I purchased from Needle and Thread along with a wool flannel lining with unbleached muslin sleeve linings. I went ahead and used my GallaRock pattern - with modifications. I added interlining to the facings, I made a one piece lining (pattern had it as a two piece), redrafted the collar (was too long from pattern) and made it a four piece collar (instead of six piece). Redrafted the sleeve cap and lengthened the sleeve. Did not use the pocket from the pattern ( pattern called for a separate pocket piece) - I sewed the pocket using the lining as per the originals. I was able to get a copy of the Military Collector & Historian - Summer 95, Article, Notes on the Federal Issue Sack Coat, by Paul Mckee as my period reference. I tried to replicate the SA Blouseshown on fig.7 as per my topstitching. I used Waterbury general eagle buttons. I suck at buttonholes, but I am getting better (believe it or not).

Here are the pictures:









Thanks for looking,

Jeff Sabol

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Jeff,

The only thought/critique I have is that the sewing is a little too nice. I suppose it's better to err on the side of better instead of worse, though! You really knocked yourself out, good job!

[jjszabo]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

Thanks Dan!!

I was really worried that my topstitching wasn't good enough....haha

I've read that the blouses were stitched by, "drunken sailers", but I didn't know to what extent I should wander my stitching. In my research, I've read that the top stitching should be around 10 stitches per inch - those are SMALL stitches. I figure with over 6,000,000 million jackets made, that I should make my topstitching "look" like originals as opposed to sticking to a stitch count. Some stitches are smaller than others and I used your method of a modified running stitch to do my topstitching. It took awile until I got the jist of what you were explaining, but once I got it it went fairly quick. Lots of stitching though.................

Thanks again for your help!!

Jeff Sabol

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

I am with Dan, that is great looking coat. I do not think I have ever seen anyone make that tight of topstitching, and am very impressed. I would, however; agree that it is almost too nice. Just a thought, but would this be like the quality of pre-war SA blouses; for I have read they were of much higher sewing quality than the ones produced during the war.

All the best,

Andrew

[unclefrank]

Re: Federal Enlisted Sack Coat Construction

That is really nice! I wish I could sew but it's tough when your all thumbs. :(