Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

[Abrams]

I was given a muzzle loading shotgun today by a friend of my father. He said it was his great grandfather's gun, and Emil is 75, so that should put this in the mid to late 1800's anyway. It was "lovingly" stored in a barn for years, and has heavy rusting, but actually is not pitted badly except around the cones and the buttplate. I can see remnants of mud-dobber nests down the barrel, and the stock has a reasonable chip in it, but otherwise is in very decent shape.

It is my desire to restore this firearm to at least use as a prop in living histories, and maybe even see if it could fire blanks. Enclosed are pictures

You can see the wood is really in excellent shape seeing as how it was neglected/stored for years. The checkering in the stock is still very crisp, and several of the metal parts still have visible detailing that will be improved with cleaning. There is no visible writing or identifying marks of any kind that I have found so far.

I will need both locks since they are missing, re-tap/clean up/replace the cones, make a new rammer, and would like to get a new buttplate, although it might clean up well enough.

I plan to carefully disassemble it, and clean the wood with mild soap and water. I'd planned on a light coat of lemon oil or beeswax to bring back the finish if it is decent yet, or a mild sanding and linseed oil if the finish is truly shot.

I plan to wash and dry the metal parts, and then start working in oil with a cloth over a period of days to loosen and remove the easy rust, and see what lies beneath, and how bad and where the pitting is. Like I said earlier, it has very, very little pitting, so I am hoping some emery cloth or fine sanding with oil may bring me back to clean metal.

My questions/observations for you good people are:

1-Any and all tips are welcome.

2-Rest easy, I do not plan to blue any metal, use any modern finishes or otherwise mar this potentially lovely antique. My objective is to restore it. That is why I posted here before even wiping it down, and am asking for guidance.

3-Can anyone identify it, or help date it? I am no firearms expert, but I know we have some resident experts that may recognize a feature, or perhaps point me towards some place I can find out what it is and when/where it was manufactured.

4-Even if it is not able to handle powder charges after restoration, it could definitely be made into a lovely wall hanger, or a prop at a non-firing event.

5-The chip in the stock. Is it better to leave that as-is, or to cut out and replace the missing wood with a new piece? Its not that large, but it does detract from the overall appearance. I would like to repair it. But I fear this may damage its antique value.

6-I need new/authentic/reproduction locks for both sides. I feel if I get the right parts, I can do this part, but understand a good gunsmith may be needed if adapting/fitting parts is troublesome. Where would you start the search?

7-Cones/nipples need to be replaced and the threads cleaned up, maybe re-tapped. I have used a tap and die before, and am confident I can clean those up. The remaining cone needs replacing.

Again, any tips, tricks, warnings, places to research or find needed info, along with dating/identifying this firearm would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

I had one in slightly better condition which ive tried to put back into "blank" firing shape. Its a bit more expensive to do so then to find a repop percussion shot gun used.

[Lance Stifle]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

Good morning Ron
I offer the following based on experience.

Chip on the side of buttstock: (not allowing for asthetics but authenticity) replace the chip both on top and side with as close a wood (after stock is cleaned up) as possible, resin and nail (fine thin nails pre-drilled slightly smaller diameter to prevent splitting), sand gradually for fit, and finally wrap in wet rawhide, laced up tightly underneath buttstock. There have been more than a few such repairs on old guns.

Is the offside nipple broken off? If so you'll need a drill press, try to contact a someone who has the right gear to drill out and re-thread this kind of small job; it will possibly save you a bit of grief.

Stock cleaning: Warm water and baby soap in a week solution. It will need more than a few applications, includes rubbing it out with an open weave type of cotton cloth.
Your wifes best Irish linen blouse will do. (Remove the buttons though as they may scratch your work.)

Allow the wood to dry without sun or heat. It will take time and patience.
When the stock has cleaned up to your satisfaction, use only BOILED linseed oil initially, and hand rub into wood all over; every day for seven days, once a week thereafter for four weeks, then monthly until your happy.
Then Beeswax finish (its only a sealer and wont soak in as well as boiled linseed), melt the Beeswax until you can soak it into a soft cotton cloth, not too much though, put it into a microwave for only ten seconds at a time until the beeswax is totally impregnated. Use it to rub over the stock a few times for sealant and dull patina finish. Keep the cloth for later use, top up beeswax using the microwave when necessary.
(Ignore the splattered beeswax inside the microwave...I'm sure the wife is understanding of a boys handyman needs).

Rust. A mixture of roughly 60% Molasses and 40% rainwater (or de-mineralised) is an old recipe to renovate rusted firearms. Soak the whole for around a week or more, keep checking on it until your satisfied, Dependent on depth of rust, I use either a brass bristle brush, or gritt paper, the grade will vary.

I'm unsure if you can get a product called "Penetrine", but there would have to be something similar there, it's a metal penetrant for freeing up rusted screws and bolts etc (don't let it get on the wood, dismantle first) and would be good for the remaining nipple extraction rather than drilling it out. Again another soaking and patience job.

Good luck Ron.

Kim Stewart-Gray

[Abrams]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

Thanks Drew, I do plan to do this more for the fun and to have an authentic weapon at the end of it all, than to save the cash.

Thanks for the tips Kim. :)
I do plan to take my time with it. Luckily, the offside nipple is just missing, not rusted or broken off. You can see the threads, but they do have a lot of corrosion in there. WD40 is the best penetrating oil I know of, and plan to use it to loosen locked screws and nipple/come that is still intact.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

I would bet it is from over the pond

Lack of the fire control group(s) could prove to be insurmountable....needing both = double bad juju.

The condition of the metal, in particular the "rust welding" of the cones in place is a pretty clear indicator to judge metallurgical integrity.

With respect to suitability in the Living History environ....it would seem a stretch, though I guess not impossible, for a percussion arm to be that aged and display that type of patina within the elapsed span leading up to the ACW.

In my possession it would seem best relugated for display in my history geek liar / redneck'd science laboratory as is.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Blair]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

C J is correct.
Most shot gun components were primarly made in either England or Belgium and imported. This includes the barrel assembly, lock assembly's and trigger groups. A lot of shot guns were made in this Country from imported parts into the 1890's.

It is important to note that there is no concept of interchangeability in the production of these firearms. Just finding missing hammers, that fit, on otherwise complete locks can prove to be an exercises in total frustration. Replacement of the locks themselves may add a degree of difficulty that you may never be able to solve.

I would strongly suggest before you do any work on this firearm... check to see if either of the barrels are LOADED! It is amazing at the number of these that I have found that were still loaded.

I would also suggest that you 'not' get involved in doing any of the machine work until you find missing components that you need. Ones that, at least, come close to fitting what you now have. To do this you will need to take the stock and tang group with you to every gun shop/gun show you go to. To check the closeness of the fit of any parts you can find. Buying parts that you have not check the fit first, will leave you with a bunch of stuff you can't use.
You have your work cut out for you and I hope you find this info helpful in your efforts. Good luck!

[Abrams]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

check to see if either of the barrels are LOADED!

What excellent advice I had not even thought about. The barrel with the missing cone is clear, as I could see daylight looking down the barrel. However, the barrel that still has a cone was dark as night. I'll start with a worm after soaking it with water to be sure its cleared if I cannot remove the cone. Thank you.

I just might be peeing in bed while wide awake, but I am going to at least try to bring the gun back to wall hanging status, and I appreciate all the input.

Thanks guys.

[Blair]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

Ron,

As a suggestion... do your checking with a wooden rod first. Start with the barrel that appears clear and cross check that length to the other barrel depth. It maybe nothing more than mud daubers nest if is doesn't measure up.
But, please don't go digging at it with a metal worm/patch puller until you feel pretty sure you have an idea what is down there and have it neutralized it.
Water is your buddy while doing this.

I truly do encourage your efforts at this restoration and wish you great luck.
I may have a source for you to check out lock plates. It would require you taking a very good rubbing from the lock mortise areas and sending that to the individual for comparison.

[j harold 587]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

I can not add to the suggestions already given. Are you familiar with the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association located in Friendship Indiana? Although there was not a great degree of interchangeability of parts as already stated there was some common sizing of lock plates fron Belgum. I was able to locate a set of locks for a double I was restoring there at the fall rendevous a couple of years ago that were originals and fit perfectly. You may also try dixie gun works. They do provide antique parts, you will need to call. You may want to google black powder firearms for a source that is closer to you.

[blue steel]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

Not sure if this helps, they appear to be later manufacture.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-DOUBLE-BARREL-CENTRAL-ARMS-GUN-PARTS-MUSKET_W0QQitemZ150430680486QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Hunting?hash=item23065e05a6

[Abrams]

Re: Authentic double barrel restoration help needed

Thanks all. I think I will just start cleaning it up, and not attempt to get 'new' parts yet, unless I can actually dry fit them to the gun, but thanks for the link Chris. I remember the big Civil War Show in Nashville, and they had many parts and such there, and there are similar gun and knife shows nearby I can take it to, and actually test-fit pieces perhaps. After some of the advice I see here, I think I should see how well it cleans up before taking it to a show and seeing about parts.

I have a rammer to make, metal to polish, and there is some wood that needs some rubbing. If I cannot locate replacement parts after doing that work, well, I have wasted time in worse ways, and I bet I will learn a few things along the way.*




*-Like Blair's suggestion to be sure its not loaded with powder from 1890 that has waited for over 100 years to make someone like me crap my pants at best, or lose a finger or more to an unfortunate spark. ;)