Suttlery idea

[Virginia Mescher]

Re: Suttlery idea

This is Virginia's spouse posting.

Concerning beer, please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the sutlers were prohibited by army regulations from selling alcoholic beverages to the enlisted men (not that some didn't try). If that is indeed the case, then selling beer would probably be out of the question. And, considering the low alcoholic content of beer, I doubt it would have been hauled to the camps for sale. Higher octane spirits would give you a lot more kick for the same volume. Plus, wasn't beer a pretty perishable beverage during the 19th century? So it might not have withstood the rigors of transport.

Michael Mescher

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Suttlery idea

I give you some sources of info that may help clear up any misconceptions. Beer was indeed a common sutler sale item. It may have been prohibited or discouraged but it was made available to the Soldiers anyway.This is what I found in about 5 minutes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=kYnMa08DwdIC&lpg=PA229&dq=sutlers%20selling%20beer%20in%20the%20civil%20war&pg=PA112#v=onepage&q=beer&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=YNhnAYMpaD0C&lpg=PA209&dq=sutlers%20selling%20beer%20in%20the%20civil%20war&pg=PA209#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4LrfhMksZYoC&lpg=PA34&dq=sutlers%20selling%20beer%20in%20the%20civil%20war&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=4LrfhMksZYoC&lpg=PA34&dq=sutlers%20selling%20beer%20in%20the%20civil%20war&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q&f=false

[PetePaolillo]

Re: Suttlery idea

And of course being a sutler is not without its risks. You might want to higher some muscle to guard your stock of Beer and other sundries. It also helps to give fair prices to the fighting Men. :)

" This was at the battle of Stone River. Lager beer had been pretty scarce for sometime, and the sutler had not been able to furnish it. Finally he succeeded in getting twenty kegs, and began to retail it out to the boys at ten cents a glass. The boys were all thirsty for the beverage, and the result was that the sutler had to have two or three assistants. Half the beer was soon gone, and it was evident that the remainder would not last long.

" To save the beer and still make a good profit, the sutler put up the price to twenty cents a glass. But this did not seem to check the demand, and the beer flowed as fast as ever. Then the sutler concluded to make the price be felt, as he knew the difficulty of getting any more beer at any price, so he raised the price to thirty cents per glass. Some of the boys now stopped drinking, and the others demonstrated at the price, but still kept buying. There were now only six kegs left, and this being deemed insufficient for the demand, the sutler raised the price this time to forty cents per glass. But it seemed that the boys were determined to drink up all that beer, though the majority had given up the luxury. Then the price was again raised. It took fifty cents to purchase a glass of that beer! Then came the finale.

" The boys at once held an indignation meeting, and demanded the sutler to lower the price of his goods. This the merchant man refused to do, saying that he would get fifty cents per glass for what beer he had left, or he would drink it all himself.

" 'All right,' said one of the boys, ' if you don't come to reasonable terms, you will soon wish you had. We will give you twenty-five cents a glass for what beer you have left.'

" ' Not much!' replied the sutler—' I'll have fifty cents a glass for that beer, or I'll not sell you a drop.'

" This settled it. Night soon came on. The boys were already decided as to their course of action. When all was quiet around the camp, one of them took the end of a long rope. which the rest had provided for him, and crawling quietly down toward the sutler's tent, fixed it to the end of the wagon tongue. The other boys then began to pull quietly, but surely, and soon the wagon began to move mysteriously up a high hill near by. The soldier who fastened the rope to the wagon, then crept into it, took out the rear end-gate, and as the wagon moved up the hill, he threw out a keg of beer here, and a box of provisions, candies or tobacco there, and a barrel of crackers a little further on, until the entire contents, about $1,500 worth of goods in all, were scattered along the hillside When the wagon reached the crest of the hill, it was empty. The soldiers then sorted it down the other side, and it did not stop for half a mile.

http://books.google.com/books?id=iVtLAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=text

[Capt51stALA]

Re: Suttlery idea

I know beer was limited but it was still there. Pete I am enjoying all these reading, I may have to buy those books! We have started looking into the paper work that is needed and we are beginning to settle on what we may offer. Thanks for all the information, and keep the suggestions coming.

[Army30th]

Re: Suttlery idea

I believe this is the information you seek:

"II. AN ACT to provide for the appointment of sutlers in the volunteer service, and to define their duties.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the inspectors-general of the Army shall constitute a board of officers, whose duty it shall be to prepare, immediately after the passage of this act, a list or schedule of the following articles which may be sold by sutlers to the officers and soldiers of the volunteer service, to wit: Apples, dried apples, oranges, figs, lemons, butter, cheese, milk, syrup, molasses, raisins, candles, crackers, wallets, brooms, comforters, boots, pocket looking glasses, pins, gloves, leather, tin wash basins, shirt buttons, horn and brass buttons, newspapers, books, tobacco, cigars, pipes, matches, blacking, blacking brushes, clothes brushes, tooth brushes, hair brushes, coarse and fine combs, emery, crocus, pocket handkerchiefs, stationery, armor oil, sweet oil, rotten stone, razor strops, razors, shaving soap, soap, suspenders, scissors, shoe strings, needles, thread, knives, pencils, and Bristol brick. Said list or schedule shall be subject, from time to time, to such revision and change as, in the judgment of the said board, the good of the service may require: Provided, always, That no intoxicating liquors shall at any time be contained therein, or the sale of such liquors be in any way authorized by said board. A copy of said list or schedule, and of any subsequent change therein, together with a copy of this act, shall be, without delay, furnished by said board to the commanding officer of each brigade and of each regiment not attached to any brigade in the volunteer service, and also to the Adjutant General of the Army.

Approved March 19, 1862.

By order of the Secretary of War:
L. THOMAS,
Adjutant- General."

[Army30th]

Re: Suttlery idea

On page 112 of the first link that Pete posted, it mentions that soon after the passage of the bill mentioned above, Sutlers in the employ of the United States Army quickly abandoned the "approved list" and sold anything and everything that would generate a PROFIT. And liquor would be a part of that.....

I'm pretty sure the average sutler of today is not in a position to acquire a roving liquor license, nor do I think there is any such animal....

[flattop32355]

Re: Suttlery idea

I may be speaking out of turn, but the "legal" ramifications may depend upon what exactly you're trying to depict: Are you wishing to be a modern sutler out to make a real-life profit, or a reenactor recreating a regimental sutler following his appointed regiment as part of your impression? Offering "period money" for a price, that can then be redeemed for items off your wagon or selling items directly for modern currency?

Several ways to play the game, some with more modern limitations than others, none with any realistic chances of making real money, but limiting the cost of the impression.

[AZReenactor]

Re: Suttlery idea

Here is a list of the sutler goods and prices for items available far out on the frontier of New Mexico.

Price List from the Post Sutler
Fort Sumner, New Mexico Territory
(August 31st, 1865)

Aracous, per ounce ............................... $0.05
Blacking, per box ......................$0.12 to $0.25
Blouses, flannel ....................... $6.50 to $18.00
Book, memorandum ........................ $0.25 to $1.50
Boots, cavalry (Graham) ............... $12.00 to $18.00
Boots, common (pegged) ................. $5.00 to $12.00
Boots, fine (Service) ................. $12.00 to $18.00
Brushes, button .................................. $0.50
Brushes, clothes ........................ $1.25 to $2.50
Brushes, hair ........................... $0.75 to $4.00
Brushes, nail ........................... $0.75 to $1.50
Brushes, shaving ........................ $0.25 to $1.25
Brushes, shoe ........................... $0.50 to $1.25
Buckles, pants ... ............................... $0.05
Buttons, pants (per bag) ....................... $0.12
Buttons, shirt (per bag) .............. $0.12 to $0.25
Canned Fruits, assorted ................. $1.50 to $2.00
Canned Meats, assorted ........................... $2.00
Canvas, per yard ................................. $0.75
Catsup, oyster ................................... $1.75
Catsup, walnut ................................... $1.00
Chalk, per pound ................................. $0.30
Chewing Tobacco, Golden Leafe, per plug .......... $1.00
Chewing Tobacco, May Apple, per plug ........... $0.12
Chewing Tobacco, Natural Leafe, per plug.......... $1.00
Chewing Tobacco, Peerless, per plug .............. $0.50
Chewing Tobacco, Press Leafe, per plug ........... $1.25
Cigars, each .............................$0.12 to $0.25
Clay Pipes ....................................... $0.12
Cloth, Cotton Velvet, per yard .......... $1.50 to $2.25
Cloth, Black Velvet, per yard ........... $0.50 to $2.00
Club Sauce ....................................... $1.00
Codfish, per pound ............................... $0.75
Coffee Pots ............................. $1.00 to $3.50
Combs ................................... $0.25 to $1.00
Cotton hose, brown ............... ...... $0.50 to $1.00
Cotton hose, white ...................... $0.50 to $1.00
Cravats .......................................... $0.25
Dish Pans ............................... $0.50 to $4.50
Emory Stone, per ounce ........................... $0.05
Envelopes, per pack ..................... $0.25 to $0.50
Fish Hooks ......................................$0.12
Fish Lines ....................................... $0.50
Fish, dried ...................................... $2.00
Gauntlets, buckskin .............................. $5.00
Gloves, Berlin ................................... $0.50
Gloves, buckskin ........................ $2.00 to $4.00
Gloves, cloth ........................... $2.50 to $3.50
Gum Shellac, per ounce ......................... $0.12
Handkerchiefs, cotton ................... $0,50 to $1.00
Handkerchiefs, linen (Gents') ............$0.50 to $1.50
Hats, military ...... ................... $5.00 to $7.00
Ink, black ....................................... $0.25
Ink, indelible, per bottle ....................... $1.00
Jamaica Ginger, per bottle ........................$1.00
Knives and Forks ........................ $0.50 to $0.75
Knives, pocket .......................... $1.00 to $5.00
Lead Pencils ...........................$0.12 to $0.25
Lemon Sugar, per can ............................. $1.50
Mackerel, each ....................................$0.50
Matches, per box ................................. $0.25
Mustard, French .................................. $0.75
Mustard, per can ........................ $0.25 to $0.50
Mustard, per pound ............................... $1.50
Needles, per paper ............................... $0.25
Nuts, per pound .................................. $0.75
Oysters, per can ........................ $1.00 to $1.50
Paper, foolscap, per quire ....................... $0.75
Paper, letter, per quire ................ $0.50 to $0.75
Paper, note, per quire ........................... $0.50
Pen Holders ........................... $0.12 to $0.50
Pens, steel, per gross ........................... $4.25
Pickles, per bottle .............................. $1.25
Pipe Stems, Cherry ...................... $0.50 to $1.25
Pipes, wooden ............................$0.50 to $1.50
Pocket Books, leather ................... $2.50 to $5.00
Pomade .................................. $0.50 to $2.50
Preserves, assorted .............................. $2.00
Razor Strops ............................ $0.75 to $1.50
Razors .................................. $2.00 to $3.00
Scissors ................................ $0.25 to $1.50
Shaving Cream, per cake .......................... $1.50
Shears .................................. $1.75 to $2.25
Shirts, calico ................................... $2.00
Shirts, denim .................................... $2.00
Shirts, hickory .................................. $2.00
Shirts, pattern ......................... $2.50 to $8.00
Shirts, white (Service) ................. $4.00 to $6.00
Shoes, common (pegged) .................. $3.00 to $6.00
Shoes, fine ............................. $4.00 to $8.00
Slippers, calf .......... ........................ $3.00
Slippers, carpet ................................. $2.50
Smoking Tobacco, per pound ....................... $1.50
Soap, per cake .......................... $0.25 to $1.00
Starch, per pound ................................ $0.50
Suspenders ....................................... $2.00
Sweet Oil, per bottle ...........................$0.37
Thread, cotton, per spool ........................ $0.25
Tin Cups ................................ $0.12 to $0.50
Toothbrushes...... . .............. ..... $0.50 to $1.25
Towels .................................. $0.50 to $1.75
Turpentine, per bottle ......................... $0.37
Undershirts ............................. $2.50 to $6.00
Wallets ....................... ......... $0.50 to $3.00
Wash Basins ............................. $0.75 to $1.50
Worcestershire Sauce ............................. $1.00
Yeast Powder, per box ............................ $0.50

From the Headquarters Records of Fort Sumner (National Archives Publication M1512, Microfilm Rolls 1-5)

[Capt51stALA]

Re: Suttlery idea

The idea is to set up like a regimental sutler, and not set up on the "sutler row". I would like to do the period money deal as we move forward with the idea and the operation. Yet I think the first go will be without the period money setup, but have the sutler set up in a correct manner for a regimental suttlery. Thanks for the list of goods that is a great help. And again, we have no illusions of making money and in all reality will lose some, but hopefully not a lot! hahaha As long as we enjoy the experience.