Why did the Southern Man go to war?

[bAcK88]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

"why did a young man in Iowa enlist?"

A bit off track to the conversation, but a good valid question...

“Admit the right of the seceding states to break up the union at pleasure…and how long will it be before the new confederacies created by the first disruption shall be resolved into still smaller fragments and the continent become one vast theater of civil war, military license, anarchy, and despotism? Better settle it at whatever the cost, and settle it forever.”
Pvt. Samuel Evans, 70th Ohio

I believe in what he says.

Kevin Dally

Is that quote contempoary to the War period?

For this discussion, we need to throw out almost every Post-War account on why a veteran went to war. After 1865 the ownership of the War remained the almost exclusive right of white Southerners AND white Northerners. Both sides would (and did for quite some time) play down the Emancipationist legacy of the War, which meant that the South was fighting to perserve slavery. Southerners embraced the Lost Cause mentality in order to justify the cost of the War. If the War wasn't about slavery but something bigger, then the deaths of thousands of Southern men could be justified. Likewise many Northern whites were more than willing to accept a Southern view of the War (focusing solely on how both sides fought courageously) for reconciliatory purposes.

A great book that looks into this trend is David Blight's Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Pat,
-You are correct College History and Militrary History are alike in many ways. The Military however, uses it to formulate philosophy and to develop the preconscious of a population. Be glad to discuss with you off line, for the examples I would describe would be in comparrison of Modern Warfare / Economy and the use of Propaganda, and I am not allowed to use modern examples on this thread.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Is that quote contempoary to the War period?

Yes, but it's a unique example that gives insight into exactly how a private came by his ideas!

Here it is in context, in Pvt. Evans' letter, written from LaGrange Tennessee, Sept. 13, 1863, to his father:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VEdxd8R06YoC&pg=PA193

In the letter, he also mentions he received other letters and spent time reading them. Maybe he also was reading an old copy of the New York Times from a few months ago, or a pamphlet somebody sent, because he plagiarized that part of his letter from a speech by Edward Everett to the Boston Union Club, April 9, 1863, which included the following:

Admit the right of the seceding States to break up the Union at pleasure, nay of each and every State to do so, and allow them to enforce that right by a successful war; -- deny the authority of the Central Government to control its members, and how long will it be before the new Confederacies created by the first disruption shall be resolved into still smaller fragments, and the continent becomes a vast theatre of civil war, military license, anarchy, and depotism? Better, at whatever cost, by whatever sacrifice, settle the question at once, and settle it forever.

The private goes on in his letter, in the following paragraph, to talk about "The hardships and perils of our brothers in the field, the fresh green graves of the dear ones who have fallen..."

Well, guess what? That's copied from later on in the same speech. (See page 5 of the newspaper report or page 42 at the pamphlet link). And I'd expect the speech was probably also reprinted elsewhere, so he may have seen it at a different source yet.

But it shows that a private in the field was internalizing what leaders were saying in their speeches and writing it home as if he himself wrote it and believed it. Before quoting, he says, "I will give you my principals again and I am not particular who knows them." His principals, not a speech he read!

After he has copied substantially from the speech, he writes, "I could write on till you would perhaps tire reading but prudence dictates to stop a while, change the subject." Yes, he could write on till he copies the whole thing.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Pritchett Ball]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Wow!
(Where do folk come up with this stuff!)

Book is book-marked on my PC...more reading for me when I recover from knee replacement surgery. Thanks for posting.

Gen. Sherman said it in another way I agree with...

“If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war.”

Kevin Dally

[Coatsy]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Plagiarism of other documents, especially modern documents in regards to this ACW discussion, is not acceptable on this forum. The posts in question have been taken off of this discussion.

This has had the elements of an outstanding discussion, let's keep it going properly folks. This is the only warning for this thread. The next time someone cannot follow the rules this thread gets shut down.


Herb Coats
Moderator

[TheRuins]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Pat,
-You are correct College History and Militrary History are alike in many ways. The Military however, uses it to formulate philosophy and to develop the preconscious of a population. Be glad to discuss with you off line, for the examples I would describe would be in comparrison of Modern Warfare / Economy and the use of Propaganda, and I am not allowed to use modern examples on this thread.

Mr. Beasley:

A few things: First, I think you are needlessly complicating the issues being discussed in this thread. It's actually fairly boiled down based on a lot of historical scholarship and knowledge of primary sources.

1. Slavery, undoubtedly was one of the main root causes of the Civil War--the reason at least guided politicians and those who made real decisions, like for example to send young men off to war.
2. Those who decided to fight went for a whole variety of complex reasons, some which didn't have anything to do with slavery, but still there are some soldiers who were consciously fighting to preserve or destroy that institution.
3. I'm not sure your using "modern" in the correct context here, and I'm not sure what relevance "modern" war has in this discussion. Similarly, I think you're vastly overstating the significant difference of studying history in the military and studying history at a university. I mean, it's all the same primary sources, it's the same authors--granted, the application of history in the military is done more for practical purposes, but this idea that there's some sort of exotic "history" within the military is just untrue, and again, I'm not seeing exactly the relevance of such claim in this discussion.

In sum, I think your engaging in a lot of intellectual gymnastics to diminish the role of slavery in the coming of the Civil War.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Mr Stacey,
-The moderators have asked and I think their wishes should be followed, and keep this subject focused.
-I am sure you do not understand what I was attempting to explain in preparing a population for war.
-I have stated that Slavery was an implement in the Economy. And the Economy will drive a war.
-I have asked (please read post 29) those who wish to discuss this matter to do so with me on PM.

[TheRuins]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Mr Stacey,
-The moderators have asked and I think their wishes should be followed, and keep this subject focused.
-I am sure you do not understand what I was attempting to explain in preparing a population for war.
-I have stated that Slavery was an implement in the Economy. And the Economy will drive a war.
-I have asked (please read post 29) those who wish to discuss this matter to do so with me on PM.

Mr. Beasley:

I don't think having this discussion via PM will bear any fruit. I can understand why the moderators want to tightly focus the discussion, because frankly all this information about how "modern" armies have gone to war is completely irrelevant.

I'm also convinced that you don't even understand the this convoluted thesis your trying to put forth for some bizarre reason to diminish the role of slavery as a major cause of the Civil War. Quite frankly, your attempting to fit square pegs in round holes with anachronistic evidence.

I think at this point this thread, as is the debate-- is played out--as professional historians found out about 40 years ago. I don't think at this point further I can bring any evidence or arguments to enlighten anybody who thinks slavery was not real significant cause of the American Civil War. I think Lee White summed it better than I could.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Why did the Southern Man go to war?

Going to prevent the horse from being beaten to death, yet again. Play nice... Remember the big three rules.