VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

[rogue]

I am asking this for a friend. I have an opinion, but no documentation. Were Enfields bearing VR (for Victoria Regina) on the lockplate used during the American Civil War?
S.Sullivan

[Craig L Barry]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

All LA Cos were so marked, whether made for Ordnance or commercial export.

[ACo.]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

Craig, IIRC, the LACo. arms were not marked with the "Crown VR" but I may be wrong and would be happy if proven so.

The common production by the Birmingham and London trade of non-interchangeable Enfields that were imported by both the North and the South during the War were commonly marked "Crown VR" so you could safely say that yes, many of the imported guns did have the marking in question but this mark did not in any way indicate ownership at any time by the British government, it only implied it to the purchaser and especially the end user, the soldier.

[Enfield]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

Hi Steve,

Bottom line, quick answer - yes.

I agree with Craig. As far as I can recall, I have never seen an L.A.Co. P53 - either made for sale to the British government, or private sale to a Volunteer, or to a US or CS purchaser (or to Australia or New Zealand, for that matter), that did NOT have the V.R beneath the Crown. This was a standard marking on L.A.Co. P53s (and Kerr rifles as well - same lockplate).

Actually, the common commercial production P53 from Birmingham or London, used in the ACW, did not have a VR on the lockplate. I have seen maybe a handful (a small handful) that did have a VR, but showed no evidence of British military use. These were, as I recall, from a London maker - maybe Yeoman's - I don't have my notes at hand. Some of the Belgian-made Enfields also had a VR.

You can see some photos of common Birmingham and London lockplates on my webpage at http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...en/enfauth.htm, and in Craig's book.

The ACW-used Enfields that almost universally (the only reason I say "almost" is because there seem to be no 100% rules in Enfield studies ... but this one should be 100%) would have had a VR on the lockplate would have been the surplus 1st and 2nd Model P53s that US and CS purchasers were buying up early in the conflict. The Brits were happy to get rid of these outdated surplus guns that had been used in the Crimean War, or made under contracts issued for that war. We know that both sides used these guns in the WBTS because the 2nd Model P53s can be picked out in period images of soldiers from both sides. These guns would have had the usual Ordnance and Government markings (including the VR), plus presumably the various markings indicating they had been "sold out of store" as surplus.

Geoff Walden

[ACo.]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

By golly Geoff, thank you for the gentle reminder. It has been years since I collected or even looked at the P53 (and other) Enfields and I forgot that the VR under the crown was unusual. The Crown yes, quite common but the VR no. My apologies to Craig and all others for any confusion I caused. :)

[Craig L Barry]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

No problem TP. Geoff is the Enfield guy. Everything I know about them as a student was learned from his baseline research or
else from the deep, deep depository of knowledge provided by the great William O Adams. The difference with the Belgian locks
marked V R was a "star" between the V and the R, whereas the British V R stamp was a circle or dot between the V and the R.
The English had govt inspectors in Belgium for their Enfield contracts w/ Liege so the "star" was a way to identify that the weapon
was Belgian.

A P53 in the Fuller Gun collection at CHCH is a Belgian mis-identified as a Birmingham made Enfield. A close inspection reveals V (star) R
under the crown and the italicized date over the Tower engraving. The mistake is an easy one to make because the barrel has
Birmingham proof marks. Liege and Birmingham actually had a reciprocal arrangement for their barrel proof houses. Even though
the Liege facilities were every bit as good, a number of Belgian barrels were sent to Birmingham for proof so they would have B'ham
proof marks. Why? It was not uncommon for unscrupulous merchants in the gun trade to "fake" Birmingham lock plate marks and
fob the Belgians off as English made. Both W Greener and Isaac Hollis sued for damages (and won) vs a fellow gunmaker caught in
the practice. Because of the difference in labor costs, a Belgian P53 clone was about 20% less expensive than one made in England.

Anyway, V R under crown seems to be a way that the British marked their locks as a matter of tradition, GR = King George, etc. It might
or might not mean that the Enfield in question was a government gun. However, this much can be said... other than London Armoury,
P53s that were sold overseas to the US or CS were not routinely marked VR under the crown. There may be a few exceptions to the rule. Like Geoff Walden always says, "never say never" with the Enfield.

[Illinois Rebel]

Re: VR marked Enfield/Tower weapons in the American Civil War?

Hello Steve,

The answer is yes. Some of the very earliest Guns that came in for the Confederacy were of the P53 Type I configuration. And these bore the V.R. marked Lock Plates.

I hope all is well with you.

Respectfully,

Michael Collins