snakes!

[PetePaolillo]

Re: snakes!

I'm surprised at the relatively small number of snake complaints I've seen in diaries. They may refer to an area as snake-riddled, but seldom mention anyone getting bitten. I'd imagine--and once again, this may be as off base as the Scouts--that the noise and ground vibration of a lot of men camping tended to drive the snakes into deeper hiding. Most of the accounts I've seen are of people out scouting or foraging in small groups and running into a copperhead or rattler. I HAVE seen accounts of a burning hollow log shedding a distraught snake, but can't recall which account it was in.

Here are a few of such accounts below.

The Civil War letters of General Robert McAllister By Robert McAllister

An excerpt from a a letter to his wife Ellen, dated June 18th 1862 , in Camp near Mechanicsville VA

...Adj. Henry was bitten by a snake the day after the battle of West Point, but he was soon well again. He was not very ill from the effects of it. ...

In this account a soldier files for a disability pension and not granted one, on the account of a snake bite he received while on guard duty in Thibodeux, LA 12 years earlier in 1864. Link Here

REPORT:

[To accompany bUl H. R. 626.]

The Committee on Invalid Pensions', to which was referred the bill (H. B. 626) granting a pension to Thomas Murry, has had the same under consideration, and begs leave to submit the following report:

Thomas Marry enlisted in Company D, Second Maine Cavalry, November 28, 1863, and was mustered out December 6,1865. He filed an application for pension April 12,1876, in which he alleges that on or about June 8,1864, while on guard-duty at Thibodeaux,La., he was poisoned by being bitten by a moccasin snake in right leg, above the knee, resulting in nervousness, impaired digestion, irregular bowels, and dizzy sensations.In support of this claim there appear the affidavits of the family physician as to prior soundness, of comrades, the regimental surgeon, and three physicians who have treated him since discharge.
Comrades E. B. Grant and Andrew D. Grant testify that the claimant was bitten by a moccasin snake at the time, place, and under the circumstances alleged. The latter killed the snake and assisted claimant to the hospital of the regiment.
Surgeon George W. Martin states that he examined claimant at time of his enlistment in November, 1863; was sound at that time and free from disease, and continued so until he was bitten by a moccasin snake on the right leg, near the knee, about June 8,1864. That the bite caused great prostration, and came very near resulting in death, but slowly recovered and was sent north on furlough in September, 1864, from which he returned in March, 1865. Subsequent to the bite, claimant suffered from nervousness, impaired digestion, irregular bowels, and general debility, and was unfit for any but light duty until his musterout. Affiant treated the soldier for the same troubles in 1871.
Dr. J. F. Brown testifies that he treated claimant for chronic diarrhoea and scurvy while at home on furlough, and at different times since. Was suffering from nervous debility and the results of scurvy at date of discharge.
Dra. Bachelder and Perkins likewise testify to claimant's continuous suffering from the above-described diseases.
Medical examination of the claimant by Pension-Office surgeons shows a feeble and irregular pulse, coated tongue, red and inflamed throat, tenderness on pressure over stomach and bowels, numerous cicatrices over body, probably caused by carbuncles or boils; complains of frequent headaches and buzzing sensation about the brain. Disability from all causes rated at $12 per month. Suspicious of syphilitic origin of the disabilities, the Pension Office had the claimant specially examined by a board of surgeons with reference thereto, but according to its certiti cate of the examination there are no indications of syphilis in the case.

The claim was Anally rejected by the Pension Office on the ground that there is no ratable degree of disability since discharge, from the effects of the snake bite.

The committee is clearly of opinion that the evidence conclusively shows that the claimant was a sound man at time of enlistment; that he was bitten by a poisonous snake; that he has since suffered from the effects of the bite, together with diarrhoea and scurvy, which are shorn to have existed at time of his sick-leave, as well as at date of his uncharge, and, in the absence of any proof to the contrary, must be attributed to his army life; and therefore reports favorably on the bill, and asks that it do pass.

Here is an acount of the Female Civil War Doctor Mary E Walker

One bright moonlight night while camping in Virginia a long distance from inhabitants, she learned that a huge snake had coiled upon the blanket at the feet of Captain Beech, of Pennsylvania. It was so heavy that the captain supposed it was a dog, and paid no attention to it, until it began to move away at sunrise. It was several days before it was killed, and the agouizing fears of Dr. Walker at night, although tenting with L. M. Painter and his wife (where she was obliged to stay, being so far from habitations that there was nothing she could do but to stay), can not be portrayed in words. The U nited States Treasury has never contained enough money to compensate her for three nights of such an experience. Henry Lewis of (she thinks) the Eighty-fourth New York Volunteer Infantry, was bitten by a snake on the mouth, while in the army, and died too horrible a death for contemplation.

[Michael Comer]

Re: snakes!

The claim was Anally rejected by the Pension Office on the ground that there is no ratable degree of disability since discharge, from the effects of the snake bite.

Anally rejected!?

[PetePaolillo]

Re: snakes!

Anally rejected!?

Ha ha, I am sure the pension board was quite anal which led them to finally reject his pension claim.
Lol, Lost in transcription..:)

[colorado infantry]

Re: snakes!

I was at a living history at Fort Larned National Park in central Kansas when my pards and I saw a Bullsnake that was probably a good seven or eight feet long and incredibly thick around. We were marching on the parade deck in formation when we stumbled upon the snake which was none too happy. Later that afternoon we watched it as it made its way between the two barracks and then off into grass and bushes along the Pawnee River. We returned to our duties for a few minutes before we heard a commotion out towards the river. Abandoning our shoe polishing and leather blacking we quickly discovered that a wild turkey was engaged in a ferocious battle with the snake. The turkey finally got the upper hand and grasping the snake in its beak thrashed it around until it was dead and then carried it back into the protection of vegetation along the river.

[fahnenschmied]

Re: snakes!

Well very interesting thread! I was wondering about that topic for a while. You have to know that we Europeans especially from Germany do not have any dangerous snakes etc. so I was wondering which ones are around in the ssouth and which in lets say Pennsylvania.
As we are not familiar withAmerican flora and fauna it can be quiite tricky if we join events abroad.

I can't speak for Pennsylvania but there are a few snakes you have to worry about. If it is completely green, or completely black, or has long lines running down the length of its back, they are harmless. Seldom seen but dangerous is the coral snake - he will remind you of the German flag. You may tell him from a similar banded banded snake by the old saying "red touch yellow, kill a fellow". There are some rattlesnakes, which can be told by their rattles. Copperheads are the color of dead leaves, and like most poisinous snakes, have a roughly diamond pattern. They are very easy to not see! Water Moccasins are a rather agressive snake, are usually quite dark colored, and are usually found by water - along with the more plentiful and less dangerous water snake. We have some rather dangerous looking snakes which are harmless, both big ones - like the King snake - and small ones - like the hog-nosed snake, who tries to act like a cobra, and sometimes plays dead.
For the South, if a snake has a small head he is not dangerous, unless he is German flag colored. If it has a very broad head, almost triangular, it could be a rattler, a copperhead, or a water moccasin. Also, the poisinous ones have "cat eyes", but you have to be close to see that....Don't worry about solid colored ones, whether very small and grey, huge and black, or small and green.
Sometimes a black snake can have a faint diamondy pattern of greyer scales - and when they get pissed they can shake their tail - if in dry leaves you might mistake it for a rattle. I had one scare the hell out of me once when I was trying to catch it...

[adamandnicole]

Re: snakes!

I was told today of an account by some of Iverson's North Carolinians at South Mountain that were pinned down by the Federals and couldn't get up while they had snakes crawling over them to get away from the fighting. If anyone has any more information on this account, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Adam Dickerson

[Becky Morgan]

Re: snakes!

Drat, had a reply written and bumped the wrong key.
Mr. Paolillo, those accounts do suggest what I thought--small parties camping far from others, in one case, a man standing guard duty--wonder if the gentleman bitten on the mouth was asleep or whether he was lying down during a fight?

There are two things to remember about most poisonous snakes: they know we're too big to eat and would rather leave than waste venom on us, and they do not like to be surprised. They will seek heat on cold nights, so the story about the colonel's bedmate is right in line with many others I've seen pre-and post-war.

Brown water snakes, however nonpoisonous, have bad attitudes and no need to think about venom. They do bite, and they have dirty teeth that tend to cause infections. If you need to get into a stream, don't be shy about splashing loudly whenever possible.

Blacksnakes will climb into a bedroll for warmth and may even be so used to people around permanent Scout or other camps that they don't alarm easily when you make noise, but while they can attain great size, they are harmless and can often be bribed to take a hike if you throw them bits of meat. While this is not strictly period correct, sensibilities about wildlife, especially in national parks, frown upon the period solution of whacking and eating the miscreants.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: snakes!

Another period snake Bite remedy though not advisable...:p;)

Snake Bite Cured By The Application Of A Coal Of Fire.—Dr. Perkins writes to the Galveston Med. Journal.:

While serving in the Confederate army I heard a very intelligent gentleman say that firing was the best remedy for the bite of a venomous snake. I never knew of the application of the remedy until a few days ago. A young man, aged 18 years of age was bitten by a very large rattlesnake (five feet long) on the arm, above the elbow. A coal of fire was applied a short time after he was bitten. I saw him two hours after the accident, when he appeared very much prostrated and was vomiting every few minutes—pulse very small and frequent, complaining constantly of the burn, which was pretty severe. I gave him freely of diluted alcohol. His recovery was rapid and the swelling in the arm slight.

The question now is, did the fire do any good? I think it did; not only by destroying the virus, to a considerable extent, but also by producing a local incapacity in the veins and absorbent vessels to perform their functions. I think, in all probability, he would have died before the alcohol was given, if the fire had not been applied.

cited from the Journal of materia medica, Volume 8 -1869

[PetePaolillo]

Re: snakes!

Mr. Paolillo, those accounts do suggest what I thought--small parties camping far from others, in one case, a man standing guard duty--wonder if the gentleman bitten on the mouth was asleep or whether he was lying down during a fight?

Mrs. Morgan I guess it all depends on where you get information from. Words like "frequently" tell me it was more than just a seldom occurrence.

In 1862, whilst medical director of the Confederate army of the Trans-Mississippi department, my attention was frequently called to the soldiers being bitten by the rattlesnake, and whilst I do not recall a death in any instance from this cause, I do remember well the alarming symptoms and the very unpleasant effects of the remedies generally used. Connected with the army was a brigade of Indians, and having always heard that they had a certain cure or antidote for that poison, I went in person to General Waite, the Indian brigadier, to learn, if possible, what it was, and it so happened that during the day spent at his tent, one of the Indians was bitten by a very large rattlesnake, and I was at once notified, and visited him, and found several of the Indians gathering the tops of a plant, which they bruised with a stone, and put into a vessel of boiling water. In a few minutes the bitten Indian having been carefully wrapped in blankets, was made to drink copiously of the decoction, and a quantity of the scalded leaves were bound around the bitten part. The Indian all this time on his feet and walking, except for the moment when applying the leaves, or drinking. Very soon I noticed the profusest diaphoresis and slight nausea increasing to vomiting in a short time. This was kept up for probably an hour and a half, when no further attention was given him, and before leaving their camp in the afternoon the patient was on duty.

The plant used I found to be the common boneset, or eupatorium perfoliatum, which is the Indian's remedy in all such cases.

J. M. KELLER, M. D. Hot Springs, Ark.

Medical journals are a great source of info for this subject.
This account comes from The Therapeutic gazette, Volume 3 G. S. Davis, 1879

[Becky Morgan]

Re: snakes!

Boneset for snakebite? Hm. Wonder whether it actually works or whether most people just weren't severely envenomated? I also wonder how often the situation of that first gentleman came up: he was ill, he got snakebit, and which made him the sickest? Scurvy does nerve damage. So, for that matter, does blue mass, and doctors handed out a lot of it.

I'm not questioning "frequently" in the least, only wondering how it happened. In my own ramblings, I have encountered snakes far more often when I was alone than when I was part of a group in the woods.

It's an interesting subject, if sad. When you think of casualties, it's easy to see the pneumonia, diarrhea and wounds and miss the natural hazards that plagued our ancestors. They were moving around, often at night, over land they didn't know. Wounded men died at Gettysburg when a field hospital tent flooded after the hard rain--no one realized the small stream routinely got that high. General Cox's memoirs have several accounts of fumbling around in the dark during night movements and nearly having close encounters with cliffs. The sinks could be a bad place at night because they attract rats, mice and their predators. We're spoiled by bright flashlights. A lantern gives light enough to navigate by, but isn't ideal on a moon-dark or rainy night.
Snakes, holes, rotten bridges, in one case a rotten-bottomed boxcar that dropped men on the tracks at South Boston, VA...the enemy was dangerous, the world more so.