Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

[Jimmayo]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I checked 15 and all had horizontal and vertical lines. Maybe some contractors cut corners back then also and used improper dies. Here are two repro eagle buttons, one with horizontal lines and one with out. Both are at least 5 years old. Also shown are one non-dug and one dug original eagle buttons. Nice detail on the non-dug one. The dug one does have the lines running both ways. Now that I look closer at the repro with no horizontal lines I don't believe it ever had any. Must be a die problem.

[rpierson]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

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I guess my point is, why should we simply throw up our hands and say, "well, they're repros so they suck, if you want good quality get originals." Should we have said the same thing about our clothing, equipment, headgear?
[/QUOTE]


We say that exact thing all the time. I have read posts that you have written bemoaning the fact that cloth produced in the modern era is vastly different than CW era cloth. We as a hobby debated haversack paint for a decade & mostly it was established that most people don't care what their haversacks are painted with as long as it's passable looking. People buy frock coats from one of the authentic vendors with machine sewn "hand sewn" looking buttonholes. Folks make repro's of C.S. garments (myself included) all the time & machine sew the "hidden" seams on a garment that should be completely hand sewn. Most folks carry repro firearms that are dimensioned & weighted NOTHING like originals. etc. etc

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you all the way. There should be better buttons available. I'm merely suggesting that even the "authentic" wing of the hobby is willing to make compromises that seem contrary to our unspoken mission statement.

I have never seen a repro U.S. button that REALLY compared favorably to originals. Even the Military Warehouse eagle buttons of years ago had some pretty hefty flaws in my book. (Nothing personal, Mr. Kindred as they were GREAT for repros...) It would be great if this dilemma were solved, but given our track record of accepting what is available, I doubt it will be.

In the mean time...save your pennies for Originals!

-Randall Pierson

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Even the Military Warehouse eagle buttons of years ago had some pretty hefty flaws in my book. (Nothing personal, Mr. Kindred as they were GREAT for repros...) It would be great if this dilemma were solved, but given our track record of accepting what is available, I doubt it will be.

"Great for repros" is a good standard of sorts. As I was telling Dan last night authenticity is a double edged sword, if you don't make a reproduction good enough no one will buy it but if you make it too good they end up being sold for originals. Also you have to keep in mind that the repro may look exactly like the original it was copied from but not look like all originals.

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

This is an interesting button I dug in the Corinth area. Any one have objections to it being reproduced?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I have read posts that you have written bemoaning the fact that cloth produced in the modern era is vastly different than CW era cloth.
-Randall Pierson

Exactly, but what I haven't done is just accept the status quo, instead I have laid out a great deal of money obtaining the best superfine and lining materials possible. I still seek better materials.

We are in agreement, I guess I'm just hopeful that better repros can be had, perhaps one day. It all depends on what we as a hobby are willing to settle for, but given the track record I can fully understand the skepticism.

Cheers.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Exactly, but what I haven't done is just accept the status quo, instead I have laid out a great deal of money obtaining the best superfine and lining materials possible. I still seek better materials.

We are in agreement, I guess I'm just hopeful that better repros can be had, perhaps one day. It all depends on what we as a hobby are willing to settle for, but given the track record I can fully understand the skepticism.
Cheers.

I've been holding off on commenting on this thread, but Ian struck a chord (a positive one) with me here. I think the answer can be found in where we get the "best" quality stuff today. I am not boasting here, and I mean that, but when I did the Sack Coat Project here on the AC in its first years a review of the coat I made was done and it was said that until an individual take his own time and money to do that again, other sources must be found (not quoting, but that was the sum up of it and it can be found with a simple Google search). So, Ian's comment made me think about how we have people who make the best of the best leather goods, finished garments North and South, civilian attire, etc. the solution for the best button must lie with an individual who has the passion, time, and money, to make it on his own for the masses. Look who is left for authentic Confederate uniform yard goods for example. One or two men, who take the time to dye it up, weave it up themselves (or contract it out) for us. We're not going to get it from an established company I don't think, at least not to the point we'd love to see.

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

We're not going to get it from an established company I don't think, at least not to the point we'd love to see.

That being the case I guess I need not bother sending those original buttons off.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

That being the case I guess I need not bother sending those original buttons off.

Jim, I should have stated that as just my opinion. If you have something in the works, that's great!

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Jim, I should have stated that as just my opinion. If you have something in the works, that's great!

Brandon,

No problem, my post was more in jest than anything else. I am looking into having the pattern for GS eagle buttons changed, like anything else it all depends on the cost of the die work.

Now for those 1833 dragoon buttons, that is one area I have absolutely no plans to get involved with. :) With a minimum order of 5000 pieces required those buttons are not something that are economically justifiable due to the small numbers needed.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

That's awesome Jim! I hope it works out. I just ran out of my surplus of Waterburys left over from the sack coat project. I like that block "I" button too. I hear those re harder and harder to come by in good quality.

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

That's awesome Jim! I hope it works out. I just ran out of my surplus of Waterburys left over from the sack coat project. I like that block "I" button too. I hear those re harder and harder to come by in good quality.

Brandon,

Believe it or not that "I" button is a reproduction that fell out of a shipment on to the gravel drive way of my shop some time ago. It was "dug" when I noticed it several months later and my area is part of a larger battlefield so the story I told with the button is in truth factual. I did not post the photo of the button to embarrass anyone, I use that button as an example of how easily it is to sell reproductions for expensive originals, that double edged sword thing I mentioned previously. I am at times at cross purposes, I want to provide an accurate reproduction but I also do not want to add to the proliferation of fakes that are already in the Civil War market. It is a difficult road sometimes. If someone reading this has ever paid big bucks for a button only to find out later it was a reproduction I am sure they can understand the situation quite clearly.

[rbruno]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I have been following this thread with great interest. I too look at the buttons being reproduced and hate to put some of them on my coats. As a Marlyander, the Maryland muffin buttons on the market today are not even close to the originals. I end up using the buttons being discussed because I find they are closer to the orignals then the Maryland buttons. So, I don't use the repros which bothers me because so many original Maryland CS frocks and jackets have those incredible MD buttons. A number of years ago, a sutler had Firman in England make a MD button based on an original. They are an great repro and are very very close to the original. I have looked and scraped and finally by buying a button or two here and there over a three year period, have collected enough Firman MD buttons to put on a frock coat. I sure hope I don't loose one. I talked to the sutler about working to get a large order again, but the dollar to the pound was terrible and it just wasn't enough. I don't think Firman wanted 10,000 buttons, but they wanted a lot and there are just not that many people on the Authentic side, as mentioned, and from MD to make it worth while. That being said, if there was a type of button that had enough universal usage to warrant a massive purchase, I think there are enough people on this end of the hobby to purchase the buttons. Ian is right. Why do we keep looking and in some cases finding the best material, patterns, sewing techniques, etc to only put terrible buttons on our jackets and frocks. On my next project I am planning on putting original Federal Staff buttons because I just don't want the repros. I forgot who mentioned it, but who is going to pay a vendor for the orignal buttons? Probably no one. So, I think it would be great and I think people would place big orders if a vendor or someone could find a manufacture willing to work at making a correct nice button.
Just my two cents. And, I would buy an well made Fed button to put on my CS coats if it was a great button.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Now for those 1833 dragoon buttons, that is one area I have absolutely no plans to get involved with. :) With a minimum order of 5000 pieces required those buttons are not something that are economically justifiable due to the small numbers needed.

I understand. My complaint on those was that in the past I was able to obtain decent looking repros, the ones I just received are hard to look at. Off center stamped eagles, with a sort of ring around the edge and the eagle itself is rather lack luster to put it mildly. I understand that this is a button not frequently used by many in this hobby, but how come in the past the stampings were so much better than what I'm seeing now? Why the difference?

Same thing with the General Service Eagles, why are poor stampings seemingly more common now than before? The pattern doesn't really need to change, I'd just like eagles that have a head and beak. :)

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

So, I think it would be great and I think people would place big orders if a vendor or someone could find a manufacture willing to work at making a correct nice button.

I can have any button you want reproduced, my minimum is 5000 pieces of style and size. What they cost is determined prior to production, the price may be along the lines folks are currently paying or it could be several times more depending on die costs. Someone wanting a special run would have to pay up front for the entire run of buttons. I would suggest using .65-.85 per button as a planning cost.

Most folks only want 100-500 of a particular item made and it is not going to happen with those numbers. It is not me saying that but the companies who set the minimums.

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I'd just like eagles that have a head and beak. :)

Next time you need some call Dan, I am pretty sure all the ones he has have heads and beaks.