Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

[Ian McWherter]

Is it just me, or has there been a serious decline in the quality of repro US Eagle Buttons available? I've ordered lots of General Service Eagle and Eagle "I" Buttons lately from many different vendors and I wouldn't sew any of these onto my uniforms. All have serious stamping flaws and lack the detail and crispness that they used to have, missing beaks, poor definition with the shield, etc. I've compared the buttons I purchased over the last year with ones I purchased years ago and there is a clear difference in quality (don't even get me started on how they compare with originals). I'm not asking for "perfect" buttons, that would be asking too much from some vendors, but can't we at least get "decent" or "acceptable" quality? Is that asking too much?

Do I have to put original buttons on every garment I make myself from now on?

[CSchneider]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I've noticed the same thing. I've been lucky to get buttons with only the beak missing. Most are missing the majority of the head and some in their talons are holding, well, nothing! Luckily, a more recent batch that seems to be from the same manufacturer has a more crisp stamping, but some sort of white metal shank. I have not had the opportunity to examine the shank in detail or see if the type of metal matches any originals, but at least the style of shank is correct and the dang eagles have a head.

-Craig Schneider

[Jimmayo]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I noticed the decline in quality several years ago. The main feature to disappear at that time was the lines in the shield. From what you have said they must be getting worse. Either whoever makes the dies is not skilled or the dies that are being used are wearing out. It could also be whare they are coming from. Pretty soon they will be dome buttons with no design.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Ian,

You are correct. They have declined little by little over the last decade. Yet they are one of the staple items of the hobby so there is no incentive to those already producing them to improve because we will always buy them.

Basically it is just a matter of $$$$$ to get correct ones made. I have a list as long as my arm of projects I would like to undertake if I was independently wealthy, but finance will always be the great bottleneck to development of new and improved products. For now, all my personal jackets and coats have original buttons on them.

[brown]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

The main feature to disappear at that time was the lines n the shield.

While I have long wished the quality AND authenticity of US buttons would increase, I have long needed a few eagles with empty shields for a specific project. If anyone has some with the other features decent, but nothing in the shield, let me know.

On another line, when is someone going to reproduce the puffed rim I buttonsfor the Western Theater?

[rpierson]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Do I have to put original buttons on every garment I make myself from now on?

Yes. That's been my approach. I pick up OG cuff & coat eagles any time I see them for a reasonable price (around $4-7 per). As a fallback, the 3/4 coat size eagle "I" buttons from Fall Creek (http://fcsutler.com/fcbuttons.asp) are pretty decent as far as repro's go. The profile, shank & eagle are WAY better than some of the other offerings.

But... IMHO originals are the only way to fly. I have actually found cuff buttons to be harder to find than the 5/8" - 3/4" coat buttons. What/how many do you need? I may be able to help.

-Randy Pierson

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Yep, just like firearms, the only way to go is originals.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Hey guys,

Thanks for the responses. While it's certainly possible for me to purchase original buttons for my own personal clothing, what about vendors who need high quality repro buttons to go on their high quality repro clothing? If you're someone like Charlie Childs, Dan Wambaugh or Chris Daley buying large quantities of original buttons isn't an option. Where are large quantities of original buttons in fair condition even to be found for a reasonable price? What's more, even if you have as an option adding $50 more to the cost of a Federal Fatigue Blouse to cover the original buttons, how many people will choose that option, especially when they've already sunk $150-$200+ into the cost of the garment? What about pre-war Federal Frock Coats where eagle "I" buttons are used, or Federal issue Greatcoats? I can collect over time, at great expense, all the original eagle "I" buttons needed for my own frock coat, but a vendor can't afford the luxury of doing so. Fall Creek's eagle "I" buttons are nice and I've used them in the past, but the problem I have with them is his maker's stamp on the back. Old Military Warehouse buttons were as good, but they had the benefit of having a blank back.

I guess my point is, why should we simply throw up our hands and say, "well, they're repros so they suck, if you want good quality get originals." Should we have said the same thing about our clothing, equipment, headgear? Original isn't always an option. Isn't it possible to have excellent quality repros as good as originals made? I'd be willing to pay upwards of $5 a button for repros as good as originals, as long as the vendor that carried them did so reliably.

What about Dragoon eagle buttons? Where am I going to get 22 original cuff size buttons for an 1833 Dragoon jacket without spending a small fortune? Am I just supposed to accept the inferior quality stamping on the repros currently available?

Why can't we collectively, as a community here on the AC, demand better quality repro buttons, especially US eagle buttons that we need all the time?

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I'd be willing to pay upwards of $5 a button for repros as good as originals, as long as the vendor that carried them did so.

Unfortuntely it is highly doubtful more than enough would be willing to do so to make it worth while. When you are investing in having 5000-10,000 buttons made you need to sell more than a couple hundred to make it worth the expense. At $5 a pop you would be lucky to sell more than a couple of hand fulls.

Why can't we collectively, as a community here on the AC, demand better quality repro buttons, especially US eagle buttons that we need all the time?

Not picking on you Ian with my comments but you bring up some good points. Collectively there just are not enough authentics to put a strong enough demand out there for the average makers to go through the expense of making the changes. As much as I hate to say this in a hobby I have been in since the 70s the numbers of authentics has not risen in numbers enough over the years to demand a lot. The mainstream has always driven the market by their numbers and from the looks of things always will.

I contacted Dan Wambaugh about this last night, correcting the problem of lines in the shield is well within the realm of possibilities. Odd thing though, I dug out a high quality reproduction jacket I have had since the very early 80s out of storage today and guess what - the eagle buttons do not have the horizontal lines in the shield. Looks like this problem is more than just a few years old. I will chase down a few original eagles this week and send them to a button company I started using this year to see what the dies will cost.

[PieBoy96]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Not sure if you're talking about the shield's horizontal lines (in the field) or vertical lines (stripes), but not all originals had the horizontal ones.

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Not sure if you're talking about the shield's horizontal lines (in the field) or vertical lines (stripes), but not all originals had the horizontal ones.

That is very true but the lack of the horizontal lines seems to be one of the chief complaints.

[guad42]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Not a button expert, but I have looked at the buttons on the frock I got from WW&Co in 2009 and there does not seem to be any missing beaks or other "flaws" as described above. Maybe they're using a better button source?

-Sam Dolan

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Ian,

I think I may not have done an adequate job of making the salient point of my post clear. There was a real reason I used five dollar signs in my estimation of how much it would cost to have one type of authentic button made. I can appreciate the level of commitment you're willing to offer in purchasing dozens, possibly hundreds of the buttons, but the unfortunate realty is that just one type of button requires a significant outlay in money, and as Jim explained our market is just not large enough to support dozens of varieties of top quality buttons. That said, I do feel (and said as much to Jim) that certain more versatile types of buttons could be produced in the highest quality and large quantities, AND still sell.

At the end of the day it is fine to demand higher quality items, and even promise to purchase your fair share (or more), but any time we are talking hardware (or really any raw material) we are talking quantities that generally do not make sense when catering to our small community. For example, when we did our CS blanket project the minimum amount of yarn the yarn company would produce for us would yield 300 blankets, three times what we wanted. In the end it was like pulling teeth to get those sold off, and after all was said and done we barely broke even on the project.

Money will always be the greatest factor in bringing new products to the market, and the vendors that are able to survive are the ones that invest what they have wisely.

[Arthur Stone]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Ian,
Maybe someone will get a cast die and start to make some good buttons! Maybe you did light a fire!!

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I understand fully the outlay required in having items reproduced authentically and how often times you're lucky to break even. I also have enormous respect for those who go to the trouble and spend the $$$$$ having items manufactured for the consumption and enjoyment of everyone on this hobby. If we could at least purchase better/reliable quality US general service eagle buttons, that are always in demand and are a staple in this hobby, I would be happy. I'm not asking for every variety of button to be reproduced, or even that US general service eagles are replicated in every detail, but can they at least have heads and beaks? That seems to be an issue of quality control more than "authenticity."

Customers would not accept coats without buttonholes or missing topstitching that's supposed to be there.