Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

[PieBoy96]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Rob: I had a set of 8 of those MD buttons and didn't have much use for them... sold them to Don Smith, who much later said he in turn sold them to a Marylander when he got out of making things -- was that you?

Another outstanding button is the Script I which Tart made up awhile back. Some have period Waterbury backmarks (not completely logical though), and others had a period Superior Quality backmark. They EVEN have the drip of solder at the base of the shank! I was lucky enough to snatch up a set of SQ's for a Tait Jacket. Unfortunately, it was a small run and Tart and/or Waterbury no longer have the ones with the period backmark and shank on them, although they maintained the outstanding faces on their new ones.

[rbruno]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Hey Paul,
Yes, that was me. You posted them for sale and I think I got 3 from you and then a couple years later, Don had them for sale and I bought his. A couple here and there from others and I have my frock coat set.

I still think there could be some interested or maybe even the possibility of enough people wanting a large number of a type of button in that quantity that Jim is talking about if the buttons are of high quality. Or am I missing the discussion of this thread. I think it is that people are looking for a better quality of button. And, if people have to pay a little more then the typical sutler row button for a quality button, I think they would do it. I guess there are just all kinds of hurdles when you are talking about the numbers that have to be made. Maybe this should go to a question like does anyone know the actual manufacture of the repro buttons that are out there and has anyone worked to talk about the quality and options that might be around to make a better button.

[MarionRifles]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I think the problem with buttons may be that the manufacturers are using dies that are just plain worn out, and as long as customers don't complain, they'll just keep churning them out.

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

I spoke to a representative at Waterbury last year to see if they could do a run of their #715 buttons (link to their "catalog" below). I was told that the dies no longer existed and they would have to be re-created using sample buttons on file. In addition to that, they seemed unwilling to provide the buttons with round brass wire shanks, false solder or flux at the base of the shank, or even a war-time "Superior Quality" or "Scoville/Waterbury" back mark. My options were the flat brass, triangular shanks without solder and a modern Waterbury back mark. I can't recall the exact price of the stamping dies because I kept getting different quotes.

Take your pick. Some of these are regularly produced which is apparent if you visit sutler row. They are definitely capable of producing any button you see in their catalog, just not 100% accurate to originals. http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/...?idCategory=84

[PieBoy96]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Brian: We need to talk to Ben Tart sometime about how he got Waterbury to make those very high quality Script I's with period backmark, round shank, and solder drip. I do not how long ago he had those made, but I bet they wouldn't be willing to do that any more, sadly. Worth a shot.

Rob: I now remember you expressed interest in the buttons, but Don snatched them up first. I sold him 8, so if that's what you got from him, you got 'em anyway!

[rpierson]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

After reading much about the poor quality of modern buttons, I thought a look at some originals might shed some light. Now, we have all seen original Fed eagle buttons & most of us probably own a few (at least 4:wink_smil). There are many good books on U.S. military buttons, so I won't go in to the intricate details of backmarks etc.

Most of the buttons in my "collection" (about 50+ non-dug eagle buttons) boast pretty crisp stampings w/ well centered eagles & both vertical & horizontal lines in the shield. However, I'd say about 20% of them are fairly crappy. Poor stampings, misshapen eagle heads, misshapen shields, off center stampings etc. Look closely at the eagles & you will see some pretty glaring flaws. Many appear pitted in spite of the fact that they retain the original gilt. I imagine that this was the result of a worn or dirty die.



Anyway, it would be great to have a more accurate reproduction button on the market, but stamping quality does not necessarily contribute to the overall authenticity of a repro button. In many cases, a rough stamping is not only acceptable, but also "correct".

-Randall Pierson

[JimKindred]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Randall,

You bring up an excellent point. To judge how good a reproduction is you must compare it with the original used as the pattern. Not just compared to any original but the exact original that was the pattern otherwise it is not a fair comparison.

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Well, for what it's worth, none of the original buttons recovered thus far at Fort Tejon State Historic Park, whether Dragoon eagle buttons or general service eagles from the CA Volunteers, have these stamping flaws. The Dragoon buttons in particular are quite nice, even after being in the ground for 150+ years. So, the search will continue...

[rbruno]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Just as an aside and really for my own information since I mentioned Firmin's Maryland buttons, I sent an email to Firmin to see if they still were making Civil War buttons. I got an email back that said they were and the min. order was 100 sets. I am not sure what is a set, maybe someone on the forum knows. I emailed back and ask which buttons they have available and how many were in a set. The show a CS Naval button on the website. When I hear something back, I will post it in the thread.

[Brandon Ledvina]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

After reading all of this yesterday I got to thinking about it. I pulled out some of my newer items and took a look. First I checked a Federal forage Cap I bought from that guy from New Jersey late last year. The two buttons appear to have a good stamp. It has a beak, etc. and appears to be very sharp. The only thing is it doesn’t have the horizontal lines on the shield. I am currently sewing a SA blouse from a kit from Wambaugh White that I received last Christmas. The buttons are not quite as nice (although this is in no way saying anything bad about such a great company). They still do have all the features except the horizontal lines on the shield but lack crispness. I also got a 4 button CS coat kit two Christmases ago from WW that had the I in the shield. They appear to have a better stamp.

[Ken]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Another problem with federal buttons that I've noticed lately is sutlers selling post Civil War eagle buttons. You can tell by the design of the wings.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Another problem with federal buttons that I've noticed lately is sutlers selling post Civil War eagle buttons. You can tell by the design of the wings.

Ken,
Could you or someone else who is following this thread elaborate on this for me please? (Perhaps there are others here who want to know too, but aren't or won't speak up.) Years and years ago, I bought a bunch of original buttons. A friend or two informed me that some of them were post war. When I asked how to tell, I got all kinds of answers/advice to the point that I never could get a really straight answer out of anyone.

Mods, if my question on this is out of line here, please delete. Thanks.

Warren Dickinson

[Coatsy]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Actually this is a great question Warren. I purchased some Federal infantry repro buttons from a non AC vendor recently that are definitely NOT ACW buttons. They were advertised as ACW buttons by the way.

These repros resemble these Indian Wars buttons that can be found here: http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Other.../USAearly.html

especially this one: http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Other...s/C081664.html Hopefully folks here won't get stuck with bad buttons like I did after seeing the photos of the Indian War version.

The sad thing is that the repro isn't close on the mark for the Indian Wars buttons as well. I've seen the originals in museums, but I never thought that vendors would send poorly recreated repros of the wrong time period and sell them as ACW buttons. Lesson learned: go with folks that you know sell quality items. I guess I should have known better.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Thanks Herb, after looking at the buttons you just posted, I remember the advice about the "chicken neck" on post war buttons. Funny, I just never thought of looking at Collectors Guild, I associate them with collecting German or European items.

Warren Dickinson

[CompanyWag]

Re: Anymore Quality US Eagle Buttons Out There?

Thanks Herb, after looking at the buttons you just posted, I remember the advice about the "chicken neck" on post war buttons. Funny, I just never thought of looking at Collectors Guild, I associate them with collecting German or European items.

Warren Dickinson

Hi Warren,

The Civil War pattern eagle was used well after the war...up until the 1870's when the new regs called for the "prussian" style eagle with the chicken neck, rather ungraceful wings and raised shield. For those who really want to tie down the manufacture date of the Civil War pattern, you have to delve into the backmarks. I've always felt safest relying on RMDC (raised-mark in depressed-channel) as being pre-war to early wartime regardless of the actual manufacturer. I've also always been impressed by the quality of the face stampings on most of the RMDC or rayed-back buttons.

Paul McKee