Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

[Rob Weaver]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Take a look at the photos here: http://americanphotocolorizing.com/Index.html

Realizing that the photos are/were originally B/W, it is interesting to see them interpreted in color.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Take a look at the photos here: http://americanphotocolorizing.com/Index.html

Realizing that the photos are/were originally B/W, it is interesting to see them interpreted in color.

That "powder monkey" photo is very nicely done! Miles ahead of the old colorizing techniques. That's what I was hoping modern technology could do.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

I see several photos out of the three pages that show some promise. I think with a clear picture, research, patience and thought some incredible results could be arrived at.

[maillemaker]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

What I am curious about is the process. Does a human have to manually assign colors, or does a human assign one color to something of high probability of being known (say, skin color), and then the computer can calculate the rest of the colors based on the grey-scale?

Steve

[maillemaker]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Take a look at the photos here: http://americanphotocolorizing.com/Index.html

Realizing that the photos are/were originally B/W, it is interesting to see them interpreted in color.

Just looked through the link. That is amazing to me. Now bear in mind, I've been doing medieval living history for over 15 years, so I'm used to going by often cartoonish paintings. Having even black and white photographs is awesome. But you colorize them and it just makes them seem even more real to me.

Steve

[Hank Trent]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

What I am curious about is the process. Does a human have to manually assign colors, or does a human assign one color to something of high probability of being known (say, skin color), and then the computer can calculate the rest of the colors based on the grey-scale?

None of the other colors can be calculated from the grayscale, even if one color is known. That information is simply lost, once the real-life color is translated to shades of gray. So the choice of color has to be entirely human-chosen and human-assigned, and could of course be completely wrong.

Edited to add: that means the process is excellent for its emotional impact, but that's pretty much all, since it uncovers no new historic data and can in fact mislead, sorta like any other historic interpretation of original artifacts. It's a way of communicating about history, rather than doing research.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Secesh]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

I agree with Mr. Trent. All that would be accomplished is emotional impact...all else would be purely speculation....

[maillemaker]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

All that would be accomplished is emotional impact...all else would be purely speculation....

When put that way, it sounds so futile, so empty, so worthless.

And then I think of my own children, and how I am so eager for them to talk and learn and to spend time with them talking and watching them learn and grow and I read your signature quote by Marion Fitzpatrick. What else is there but emotional impact?

Steve

[dixieflyer]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Steve, this. along with many other things, can serve as a springboard to greater interest. I remember being poo-poo'd in years past for advocating the use of historic novels in the class room. I had a professor who used "Killer Angels" in one of my undergrad classes on the CW back in 1981. Purists and certain academics will, and have cringed, but how many, besides me, were turned on to the CW by the use of that novel? Combined with other texts a good historic novel can be a great hook. So can these images. Like anything though, they need to be used in context.

Just my two kopecks.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

When put that way, it sounds so futile, so empty, so worthless.

Really? I didn't read it that way at all. It just seemed a bland statement of fact.

And then I think of my own children, and how I am so eager for them to talk and learn and to spend time with them talking and watching them learn and grow and I read your signature quote by Marion Fitzpatrick. What else is there but emotional impact?

I'm seeing this discussion on colorizing as the classic duality between historic research and historic interpretation, which is particularly relevant for reenacting, since reenacting itself is mostly historic interpretation (with a little "experimental archaeology"-type research thrown in). Research focusses on gathering information, while interpretation focusses on presenting it to others in hopefully an interesting and enlightening way.

Emotional impact is a big part of interpretation. Engaging the visitors, inspiring them to learn more, making things vivid and memorable--that's what it's all about.

Emotional impact really isn't relevant to research. Something either happened or it didn't, and how we feel about it doesn't really make any difference as far as the strength of the evidence.

Here's what happens when all the focus is on the interpretation side of the equation: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/sh...392#post181392

Noah's paraphrased summary of the site manager's justification is spot-on for the qualities one wants in good interpretation, if interpretation is all that matters: "Well, it may be wrong and/or outrageous, but if it gets them coming out here to visit - be it to confirm/deny the accuracy, or just to look around - then at the least they are actually out visiting the place. That offers the staff the chance to correct their misconceptions and provide at least one moment of educational value."

But I think it also shows the weakness of emphasizing emotional impact too much. Colorized pictures like the one of the powder monkey linked in this thread are very cool, and accomplish well the goal of making the past more accessible and more vividly "real," in an emotional sense, and I think that's a good thing.

But one also always needs to keep in mind that the emotional impact may be fooling us into picturing the past the way it never was, if the colors are wrong. That's not necessarily bad; it's just an unavoidable hazard. It's the same hazard that reenacting has, since living history is so vivid and memorable that it can imprint an indelibly wrong picture of the past, if one doesn't constantly work to remember what's unavoidably inaccurate even at the most "accurate" events.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Secesh]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

What I am trying to say is that, as true colors cannot be determined on period photography with 100% accuracy, anything digitalized would be simply speculation. Colorized images would satisfy the curiosity of what the individual or scene MAY have looked like in real life. We all know that yellow photographed black in period photography...it makes me wonder if some of the CS uniforms we see in images, especially along the Hagerstown Turnpike, could have actually been a yellowish shade of butternut...Would not that have photographed dark also? Makes me wonder...

[GreencoatCross]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Here's one of Adjt. Lewis Parmalee, 2nd U.S.S.S. I did a few years ago just for fun. I think I did this much in about twenty minutes but I never finished it; the colorized parts need an awful lot of tweaking and I didn't do anything with the background. I've always wanted to scan my photograph collection in at high resolution and spend some free time in the evenings colorizing them. To me it's mostly about "this looks neat" but I guess if done carefully and accurately then colorized images could be used as a learning tool (or teaching tool).

[dixieflyer]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

We all know that yellow photographed black in period photography...it makes me wonder if some of the CS uniforms we see in images, especially along the Hagerstown Turnpike, could have actually been a yellowish shade of butternut...Would not that have photographed dark also? Makes me wonder...

And right there is another thread I have thought to start, ask questions, etc.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Interesting thought.
1. Have any uniforms from the affected units survived?
2. Have any of you any butternut-dyed wool that could be photographed for comparison? Now obviously, the results will not be 100 percent certain. We have very little way of knowing how old the KIAs' uniforms were, how much weather and sun they might have gone through, etc.

The idea of a past in color is far too interesting to abandon. The more samples we have of known items, the more nearly possible it will be, but we'll always have doubt even if we have the original item that was photographed. How are we to be sure it wasn't overdyed, didn't fade much...?

I've wondered what would happen if we gathered a group of history-minded college sophomore men, kitted them out in the best we can manage, and told them to camp on the college green for the next three years, wearing nothing but what they were issued and periodically going off to scramble through the woods and fall in the local mud. It still wouldn't be an accurate idea of Civil War service, but it might give us some insight into clothing and gear wear and fading.

[Nathan Dodds]

Re: Digitaly colourized Civil War photos?

Nice job there Greencoat! That is one of the better colourizations I have seen. Do you ever plan to finish the background as well?