What is a morgen

[Scott]

Ok, I'm doing a little family history and have run across something interesting, I know that this isn't related to WBTS but I hope to incorporate some of my history into my impression. I was hoping that somebody might understand this:

In 1653 Jon Van Cleave came to New Netherlands, landed on Long Island, where he owned 14 morgens in Gravesend in 1657.

After doing a google seach I came across sites but they were written in another language.... mods feel free to move or delete this if you feel that it does not apply to the guidelines of this site.

thanks,

Scott Davolt

[BHoover]

Re: What is a morgen

From what I've read, a morgen was the amount of land a man coujd plow in a morning (morgen = morning) which I've seen estimated at between 2 and 3 acres.

[Scott]

Re: What is a morgen

I think 1 morgen = 3 acres

and I think it is usually used as a plural, as "he owned 14 morgen"

Thanks, for the quick and informative reply :)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What is a morgen

There is a horse called a Morgan, but I dont know when those were bread. BTW I am related to Horatio Van Cleave :wink_smil

[Scott]

Re: What is a morgen

There is a horse called a Morgan, but I dont know when those were bread. BTW I am related to Horatio Van Cleave :wink_smil

How many generations back from you?

[KKS]

Re: What is a morgen

A morgen defined as an amount of land is more likely. According to the website for the American Morgan Horse Association, the foundation sire Justin Morgan was born in 1789.

Kira Sanscrainte

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What is a morgen

How many generations back from you?

No idea, but it is on my mothers fathers side.

[Rhinevalleylad]

Re: What is a morgen

Well Bruce is right

a morgen is an ancient german word for an amount of ground.

The only probblem is, there is a difference in size between
e. g. a prussian and a hessian morgen.

Well for the Hessians:
1 Morgen = 2616 squaremeter = 0.6475 squaremile
Morgen is the plural too, so

14 morgen = 9.06 squaremiles

Ingo Rolletter

[pipthelimey]

Re: What is a morgen

There is a horse called a Morgan, but I dont know when those were bread. BTW I am related to Horatio Van Cleave :wink_smil

Morgan Horses weren't bred until the 1700's, the first of the breed being owned by a "Justin Morgan" in the New England area.

Andrew Jerram
The "I bought a Morgan in May and still haven't gotten to ride her at an event" mess :cry_smile

[10TnVI]

Re: What is a morgen

According to this site-BTW great set of conversion tables-
14 morgen is equal to 8.83 acres.

http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemistry/general/units_en.html

9 sq. miles would equal over 5700 acres, making the individual in question a very major landholder for the time and place.

[Scott]

Re: What is a morgen

From my understandings Jon Van Cleave received the 14 morgen as a payment from the King of England. Apparently the King owed my Grandfather money, but for what I'm unsure... I am still trying to research this.

Robert, I am still checking about your relative, who knows, perhaps we are related somehow :)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: What is a morgen

From my understandings Jon Van Cleave received the 14 morgen as a payment from the King of England. Apparently the King owed my Grandfather money, but for what I'm unsure... I am still trying to research this.

Robert, I am still checking about your relative, who knows, perhaps we are related somehow :)

Scott should be allot of info on him out there. He was a General in the Army of the Cumberland, and was the original commander of the 2nd MN, which ironicaly had I had 5 members of my dads side of the family. Also the 9th Ohio (same brigade) had several members of my moms side of the family. My whole family history seems to be wrapped up in that one brigade!

[Scott]

Re: What is a morgen

Scott should be allot of info on him out there. He was a General in the Army of the Cumberland, and was the original commander of the 2nd MN, which ironicaly had I had 5 members of my dads side of the family. Also the 9th Ohio (same brigade) had several members of my moms side of the family. My whole family history seems to be wrapped up in that one brigade!

I have to get back to my hometown to pull up the rest of my family history stuff.... currently I only have the Van Cleave history from 1580-1775 the rest is back in my hometown. When I do, I'll check, I don't think that it would be a direct relation, but perhaps it is somewhere on the family tree.

That's kinda crazy how you had so many family members in the same Brigade, although a very similar thing happened with my family during the Rev. War. I had two relatives sign the Dec. of Ind. on opposite sides of the family.

[RJSamp]

Re: What is a morgen

My Great Uncle, Wilhelm Samp, fought in the Franco Prussian War and settled in Shawano Wisconsin in the 1870's. His will gives 50 morgen to his 2nd born son..... a little more than 40 acres. the land is still worked by Samp's.

his first born son was kidnapped by Oneida Indians in 1883...but that's another story.....


RJ Samp

[KarinTimour]

Re: What is a morgen

As to the other part of the original question, the said morgens of land were located in Gravesend -- which is a specific part of what is now Brooklyn, New York. It probably was pretty valuable land, because Gravesend Bay is the section of New York Harbor just south of the Verrazano Bridge, just a smidge north of Coney Island. There is still a neighborhood in Brooklyn called Gravesend and on the south side of it, what is now known as Coney Island Creek flows directly out into New York Harbor. Since water was the way to move in the 1600s, the land was easily accessible.

Good luck with your geneology, fascinating the things you can figure out with very little information.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com