Sharps Rifle Information

[cwpilgrim]

What would you recommend as far as an accurate repop for both CW impression and live firing?

I know Pedersoli has them and Shiloh. Not knowing the finer details of who, or which, is the more accurate (compared to originals) a bit of an education in this matter would be sincerely appreciated.

Is such an animal even to be found?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

Hallo!

Short answer... none.

As far as reproductions go, when it comes to some authentcity, the "best" were/are the NM1859 Sharps Rifles and Carbines made by the Italians and known as Garrett in the 1980's. They still pop used and pre-owned once in a while.

In brief and to over-generalize...

Failing that, IMHO, the "Shiloh" versions are a notch above the Italian versions, also in price.

The biggest weakness with the repro Sharps, including "Shiloh" versions, is the lack of a Lawrence pellet primer mechanism (only ever repro'd by "Garrett"). What the various companies including Shiloh did is simply "mold" that portion of the lockplate as a solid block of metal that kinda/sorta, from a distance, gives the illusion that that the lock is correct. NOT that there are pellet primers now anyways, but the absence of the mechanism part of the lock is obvious.

The second weakness is where the Italians messed with the Sharps gas seal portion of the breech block and instead of the floating Sharps plate, "fused" it to the block face and inserted a "floating" tube (that sometimes floats and sometimes doesn't) in the chamber to serve as a gas check.

The third weakness is minor, I suppose... they are .54's instead of .52's.

Many/most lads live with the Lawrence pellet primer problem, believing flawed repro Sharps rifles or carbines are better than none.

I used to use a reworked old SILE carbine, where I added a mint original NM1859 "patchbox" and a mint Sharps lock. My current Sharps rifle, a Garrett, had its lock swapped with a mint original, and now a lad somewhere has my Garrett on is carbine i believe.

Curt

[Regimental Colours]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

As Curt already stated, both the Pedersoli and the Shiloh leave a lot to be desired.

As a third option, get John Zimmerman to build you a Sharps. His work is second to none and will be the next best thing to owning an original.

[Regimental Colours]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

The following website will provide you with information on John Zimmerman. John doesn't use email.

http://www.edsmart.com/jz/

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

John,

I know we've been discussing this via email but I figured a quick and easy guide to Sharps rifles "as I see it" would be good to post publicly as it would give those more learned than I a chance to comment.

There are four manufacturers of Sharps rifle reproductions of which I know, and ranked from worst to best they are:

4. Armi Sport: Junk. Our group worked with a couple of these the first year or two of production and they were absolute pieces of filth. The idea that someone would spend several hundred dollars on this rifle likely highlights the same reason people will spend millions of dollars on Justin Bieber's "music".

3. Pedersoli: Passable. Get ready for lots of misfires, a huge learning curve, and a rifle that feels about as clunky as a modern Italian Springfield reproduction does compared to an original. Bulky doesn't begin to describe it, we're talking fat Albert here. Fit and finish of the metal parts is fine, but forget any amount of interchangeability with originals.

2. Shiloh: Decent. In the early days of Shiloh the rifles were made in Farmingdale Vermont, and the fit and finish are accurate to original specs, though for the most part the various parts are not interchangeable with originals. I have known an original lock to be put into a Farmingdale Sharps with a modest amount of success. Ten or fifteen years ago the Shiloh Sharps company moved to Big Timber Montana, and changed their focus to the cowboy action shooting set. Now an authentic Model 1863 Sharps (or dst Berdan model) will run you around $2,500 new, and I don't like the finish of the wood or metal when compared to originals. In terms of bulkiness they are a little better than the Pedersolis, but are still overweight chubby boys, not as bad as fat Albert, maybe closer to Michael Moore.

1. Garrett: Superb. These were made in the 70s and 80s for the Garrett arms company by the Italians. They are sleek, light, and handle like an original. From what Frank Garrett has said only 300 rifles were produced. I have seen TWO rifles come up for sale online since 1997, I own one, Bill Skillman owns the other. Rare doesn't begin to describe it. These will have the Lawrence primer and the only change from the original rifles is the barrels are made in .54 caliber instead of .52. They are supposedly completely interchangeable with originals, though I have not personally tested this out.


There are a small number of Pedersoli Sharps rifles floating around with the Lawrence primer system installed. One is the prototype rifle delivered to Turner Kirkland at DGW and I believe is still there. Another came up for sale on gunbroker last year and my theory is that rifle was one of several that Pedersoli had originally made for Garrett but was rejected by Frank and instead was sold by the company directly to the US market. "Real" Garretts will have Frank's cartouche on the left side of the wrist. Bear in mind that there are 2-3 times as many Garrett Sharps carbines out there as rifles, though even those are relatively uncommon.

It's a tough road to travel to get a truly excellent reproduction Sharps rifle. Patience is the best tool you can have in your toolbox on that quest!

[Union Navy]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

I have one of those Armi Sport rifles, and can't really comment on the quality, since I've only had that and an IAB carbine (supposedly even worse that Armi Sport). One thing I do know - a Lawrence pellet primer lock plate (obtained from Curt) will fit it with minimal stock cutting. Took me about 15 minutes to get it in properly. I don't have the money or patience to get a Garret, so this will have to do. Total cost: $650.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

To the experts:
Could you comment on the feasibility of refurbishing/restoring an original using a combination of original and repro parts?

I have seen a couple of folks try similar things with Spencers, including converting them to center-fire. I didn't know if a Sharps restoration/parts gun would be more cost effective than a "shootable" original.

[Union Navy]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

I have done that to my Spencer rifle. Original metal (SN 44xx), replacement wood, S&S replacement center-fire block and magazine follower. Works pretty well with adapted 32 gauge shotgun hulls. Too bad they are red.

I would have considered this with the Sharps, but it already has a floating breech block plate and not the floating tube. As Curt has mentioned before, it doesn't really work as intended due to lack of backpressure in a blank. I have added a few replacement Lawrence lockplate parts, mostly external for looks, since it will not be likely that I will get any pellets for it anytime soon.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

Hallo!

"Could you comment on the feasibility of refurbishing/restoring an original using a combination of original and repro parts?"


Short answer yes...

IMHO, it is a matter of luck and cost, or cost and luck.

Sharps can be pricey because, well, they are Sharps and command a certain added expense due to their being.. Sharps.

That said, there is a realm of originals that have great wood, and great metal, but have lost their "color" due to age fading and darkening, or agressive previous owners or dealers gettign rid of "dark" to try to get more money for a "bright" one.
My late pard, bought a very crisp NM1863 Rifle for $3,000, and had a professional Period restoration expert "recolor" it for $500. He knew it was the kiss of death with resale, BUT he wanted a CW era Sharps tha tlooked like a CW era Sharps looked and the cost, well, it was jsut the cost. It did not matter to him. (When he died, his wife tried to sell it for $1800 and could not. I was going to take it, but before I found out she sold it for $1,000 just to be done with it...)
He also had a similar Starr carbine Period respored, and it was very nice. Perfect, in fact. But its resale value was,let's say.. "compromised' (but he did not care).

I had a NM1863 Carbine in my collection once, I had picked up in the 1980's for $385. It was "gray." But it could NOT have been easily restored, as it had been used to death. Meaning, the rifling was worn and uneven, and pitted, but worse yet... the breech was worn and loose, and would have sprayed gas everywhere. Without hindsight being 20/20, I should not have sold it for $1,000 and used it as a parts gun to swap out parts and restored parts on a Shiloh. But I didn't... (Just saw a gray original Sharps lock with an asking price of $695.)

So, IMHO, yes, it can be done, but "at a cost."

Curt

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Sharps Rifle Information

To add to what Curt says, I have found in my limited experience with original Sharps that there is much less "middle ground" in terms of quality. After the war thousands were converted to accept metallic cartridges, and of those percussion models that remained many were used and abused. There seems to be much more of a gulf between the excellent quality rifles and carbines that you wouldn't dare bugger up in order to get a few hours of use out of every year, and the rusted and pitted pieces of junk from which no salvageable parts can be gleaned.

Notwithstanding the fact that significantly less were made than say, the model 1861 Springfield. So there is just simply a smaller pool from which to draw.

Would I use an original lock plate or other parts in a rifle? Absolutely. But be ready to spend 2X for each and every part what you would on a Springfield! I believe last time I checked it was $200.00 just for a complete set of internals for the Lawrence primer, and make sure that screw is on nice and tight otherwise they'll all fall out the first time you go to shoulder arms!