Steam train to Shiloh

[tomarch]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

By the look of the photo I think they are running #844 which is a 4-8-4 "Notrhern" type. B.T.W. for any Steam fans in the L.A. area, go to Steam Town in Griffith Park...They have an old 4-4-0 "American" that was last used by the Stockton Terminal Ry. It was built in 1864 for the Central Pacific and was shipped 'round the Horn for use in building the Transcontenintal R.R. I find it a great indication of the indrustrial muscle of the United States that even with the war on there was enough indrustrial capacity for the C.P to purchase Railroad Engines and have them shipped to Ca. (I also believe at the time the Army of the Potomac had stockpiles of up to 10 miles worth of track available thru the U.S.Military Railroad)

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

Well, there's...

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/info/faq/history.shtml\

or there's the feedback form:

http://www.uprr.com/info/feedback.shtml

Also, you can call or write at the main office:
Union Pacific Railroad
1400 Douglas Street
Omaha, NE 68179

UP Main Number: 402-544-5000
UP Operator: 888-870-8777

When Steve Lee was the boss out there and Bob Krieger was his right-hand man, I'd know who to contact right away. Bob still spends a lot of time at the museum in Cheyenne and would probably be very helpful. They're a friendly bunch in general, so I wouldn't worry about calling or writing.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

I can vouch for how nice Leviathan looks. Their next project is the York, and I have heard they're trying to replicate Lincoln's funeral train's cars. If they manage, that would indeed be a period-correct (or as close as possible, given operating regulations) train.

[Silas]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

The Lincoln train would be a unique living history presentation. Riding the rails for several days and making frequent stops. Yeah, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

The Lincoln train would be a unique living history presentation. Riding the rails for several days and making frequent stops. Yeah, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

I'd second that thought.

Back during the 125th a number of us were hired by the State of Illinois to appear in a tourism commercial depicting the Lincoln funeral train passing in the night. It was a pretty slick production. They hauled the C&NW No. 1385 down from Freedom WI and decked it out so it would pass with editing as an earlier engine in the quick nighttime shots. I was one of the field officers seated behind the coffin. I saw the finished ad only a couple of times on TV before the State of Illinois pulled it over the controversy of using an out of state production company and an out of state steam engine. What a waste of money!

[Hank Trent]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

I've ridden trains (modern trains) alone to events quite a few times, and plan on it again at least once next year.

What I'd love, even on a 20th century train, would be to ride among people who were trying their best to make it really seem like being on an 1860s century train. I've not seen that aspect of authenticity mentioned at all in connection with any reenactment train trips, let alone any hope of it being enforced. No modern food? No modern cameras or cell phones? No modern talk? I don't mean just sometimes, I mean all the time, unless there's some logistic/health situation. For most reenactors, restricting those things would take away the enjoyment.

I wish it could be different, and as the expense and logistics increase, the appreciation of all that incredible work in coordinating it could be met with more dedication from the participants to focus on the past. But like the lack of truly period rolling stock, a lack of like-minded reenactors just seems to be something one has to either live with, or stay away and go where like-minded people are (and yes, I've found them, but not enough for something logistically complex).

The frustrating part is that the rolling stock could be improved immensely, in theory, with a few million dollars, but no money in the world can make people do what they don't enjoy doing, even if it would cost them nothing.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

no money in the world can make people do what they don't enjoy doing, even if it would cost them nothing.

And there you have it. I have seen too many events where the setting wasn't THAT far off, and the clothing was reasonable, but the attutude was so poor that there was no time machine to be had. On the other hand, I've been around people in terrible kit, in a heavily intruded setting, where the atmosphere was solidly 1863.

The Lincoln car shouldn't cost as much as the locomotive herself did, of course. It may be a feasible project. It will not be entirely authentic simply because the FRA would not let a fully authentic consist operate. Even if it was on a track completely locked off from the rest of the rail network, they might or might not issue a waiver. The sensible--not correct, in many senses, but sensible--thing to do is to use modern safety appliances. Just as the Coast Guard will not permit passenger trips without life jackets and other safety devices, engine and train crews will have to use safety gear that will not be period-correct. Health and safety trump authenticity for me, lest we have a period-correct loss of fingers in a link and pin coupler. None of the modern trappings would stop me from enjoying the experience of seeing what would be, to any but an extremely critical eye, Mr. Lincoln on his last trip home. It's like learning to ignore power lines overhead or the occasional contrail.

It's also worth noting that Leviathan, like many other small locomotives, travels to rail festivals on a flatbed truck. The funeral car should also be transportable that way. While it sounds silly to haul rail equipment on the road, the increasing reluctance of tight-packed mainline railroads to host steam of any kind make it necessary. On the other hand, that also means it's possible to take the train even to an area where external rail connections have been severed. I've spoken to Leviathan's owners and they're a reasonable bunch, able to do what they manage by a combination of caution, intelligent hope and good business. If they're approached in that sp[irit, it's hard to tell what they might be able to do.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

It will not be entirely authentic simply because the FRA would not let a fully authentic consist operate. Even if it was on a track completely locked off from the rest of the rail network, they might or might not issue a waiver. The sensible--not correct, in many senses, but sensible--thing to do is to use modern safety appliances. Just as the Coast Guard will not permit passenger trips without life jackets and other safety devices, engine and train crews will have to use safety gear that will not be period-correct.

Becky,

Do you know if the Leviathan has some sort of modern braking system? It is my understanding that period locomotives simply reversed their running gear for an immediate stop. The Westinghouse air brake was a patented in 1869 and the Leviathan's historic build date was 1868...unless Kloke is depicting a retrofit of a later date. I would also assume that any recreated rolling stock would also have to be fitted with air brakes rather than having brakemen stationed on each car.

All of these are neccessary safety appliances that really shouldn't intrude on the historic ambiance except for the most discerning rivet counter.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

I THINK--and I'd have to talk to Kloke first to be sure--that she does have air brakes and that's what they have planned for the car. It's true that a small consist on relatively flat track with a brakie on each car to crank down the brake rigging would probably be safe, and it MAY be possible for the FRA to waive some requirements, but most host railroads and/or their insurance companies might be leery of such an arrangement.

Yes, it would sound different, but as you say, not to the point of being intrusive.

[CompanyWag]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

Their next project is the York, and I have heard they're trying to replicate Lincoln's funeral train's cars.

Are you sure the car is going to be a complete replica, or is Kloke moving forward on the restoration of the supposed "Lincoln Funeral Car" found in Missouri?
I stumbled on this today. Don't know if this is old news, but they misspelled Kloke in the article.

http://ozarksfirst.com/search-fulltext?nxd_id=409716

I wouldn't count on this being the actual funeral car, but it certainly looks like a mid-century clerestory roof passenger car.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

The FRA requires any train going over a public crossings or carrying passengers to have air brakes.

[Becky Morgan]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

Right. It's not negotiable if the track is connected to the greater system. I didn't realize ANY passenger train was covered, but that doesn't surprise me. Once again, though, it shouldn't be a problem.

I also wonder whether they're restoring that coach or copying it. Hmmm, this site is interesting (and has a list of the Veterans' Reserve Corps honor guard.)

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/news/train.htm

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

Bit of a fun anecdote:

From: Hill & Swayze's Confederate States Rail-Road & Steam-Boat Guide, Containing the Time-Tables, Fares, Connections and Distances on all the Rail-Roads of the Confederate States; also, the Connecting Lines of Rail-Roads, Steam-Boats and Stages. And Will Be Accompanied by a Complete Guide to the Principal Hotels, with a Large Variety of Valuable Information, Collected, Compiled and Arranged by J. C. Swayze

THE LADIES' CAR.

Since the war began, the "Ladies' Car," has become an "indispensable institution" upon all well regulated Rail-Roads, and is frequently the scene of many a gallantry that is prompted by more selfish motives than a casual observer would at first suppose. To expose these uses and abuses, we propose, from time to time, to give our readers a medley of incidents, accidents, and occurrences--allowing the "Ladies' Car" to speak propria personoe; for all must acknowledge that she must know best of what she sees, while a single traveller would let the richest gems pass unseen. So, with this introduction we shall retire, and the Ladies' Car will tell her own stories.

Ten! Yes, ten rough looking men have each taken two seats, and spread themselves accordingly, when a lady steps on the platform for admission to the so-called sanctuary and as she is shown in by the polite guard, she looks enquiringly about and asks:

"Is this the Ladies' Car?"

"Yes mem," replies the guard.

"Well, it has little the appearance of it now, I declare," and the lady began looking where she might find a seat by herself.

Who are these men? We will raise their hats from over their eyes (where they have pulled them for very shame of their own conduct) and see if we can distinguish to what order of humanity they belong.

Hah! a Colonel! Well I declare! And a Confederate Colonel too-- worse and worse, but then the Superintendent escorted him and ordered him to be passed--so it must be all right--and besides that, he is a soldier, a long way from home, and "don't expect to marry in this section of country no how," so, I'll excuse him.

You, sir! Who are you? Oh, I see--a Captain, and a man who always obeys orders, no matter what the ladies or anybody else says. Came in by the Colonel ordering the guard to "let that man pass." Very good; I must excuse him.

And the next is--well, may I believe my eyes, another Captain, and a man who is quite as averse to disobeying orders as the one just passed. Well, under the same rule I shall have to excuse him.

Number four, the best looking of all, and one whom I had hoped to see rise and give the lady his seat: preserved the same apparent unconcern for what was passing until the lady was seated, when he turned a volley of eyes upon her that were destined to do their work. He was a Lieutenant, and another man who takes pride in obeying orders. His Captain commissioned him to enter. Another excuse is of course necessary in this case.

The next four are also soldiers, but unfortunately for them and me, they bear no distinguishing marks by which their rank can be distinguished, so we must set them down as privates.--Privates! astonishing! Privates in the Ladies' Car! What miracle could have been instrumental in this? Directly after the Lieutenant entered, a gentle tap was heard at his window, when he inquired: "Who's there?" the leader of the squad replied:

"Its four o' your boys Lieutenant: can't you git us in there some how?"

"Don't know--I'll see--go to the front door."

The parties meet at the door designated, when the Lieutenant commands:

"Guard, pass those men," and the guard steps aside and the boys pass in. What must I do now? Pass another excuse? I wish I had not excused the first encroachment, and then I should not have been bothered with this; but, as I have allowed a precedent, why I must abide by it--so, of course these last four are excusable.

Two more remain, of whom I must speak. One is a tolerably rough looking case--and the question naturally arises--how in the world did he ever get into the Ladies' Car, where a guard is placed for the especial purpose of securing ladies against the presence of coarse, indecent looking men, the very picture of which my subject represents? I'll tell you--he is a particular friend of our trusty guard, who thinks he will treat his friend to a luxury in the way of women, if he can't in the way of wine. So he is accounted for, and a right good candidate is he to be excused for his trespass.

The next is not very unlike the last in appearance. He is a friend of the brakeman, who takes great care to preserve the friendship of the guard, and thus through a train of influential influence he gains admittance to the coveted presence of the ladies. He, most certainly is excusable. Who wouldn't?

Ladies now begin to come in--one by one the before described ten, relinquish their extra seats after the ladies ask for them, until at length the Lieutenant, capable of no further resistance to his natural gallantry gives up his seats to a bevy of pretty girls, and retreats to the nearest point from which a successful attack might be made on the lady who first entered, and who his eyes had not ceased to prey upon. He at length ventures a word. Ah! it is favorably received. How could it be otherwise though; a man of good appearance always takes with the ladies, and no questions asked about sense.

There he goes, I thought that would be the end of it. He sits down beside her. I can safely put that down for a love affair, of which I may reveal the secrets one of these days. For the present I will leave them to enjoy themselves.

"Ladies' Car, sir," says the sentinel almost continuously --"Ladies' Car!" and everybody who wishes to take the train is certain to approach the ladies' car first.

"Ladies' Car, sir."

"Of course it's the ladies' car, that's just the car I want."

"Have you a lady aboard?"

"Certainly I have, or what do you think I'd be here for."

"All right sir, pass in sir, excuse me sir," says my very polite guard, and a "fellah" that "knows the ropes," is admitted.

Several are admitted in this manner until the car becomes overcrowded, while other cars on the train are comparatively empty. But who's to blame for this--all are excusable. The magnet is there and "human natur" does the rest.

Another applicant for admission! Ah! I've seen that face before. Well, now, I should be loth to accuse him of trying to get into the ladies car, without the very palpable excuse of a lady on his arm. The guard tells him it is the Ladies' Car. He parleys--its no use, the ladies' car is invulnerable--he can't command the "influential influence," and he retires, falls back, retreats. He is an Editor! What a pity it is these editors have'nt a little more brass--they could see lots of fun if they would only put on the faces that some of our military men do, and especially the marriageable ones. But of this enough until another time.

AN ingenious dandy conceals his baldness in Paris, by having a complete set of thirty-one wigs, each one longer haired than the other; at the end of the month he had his hair cut, by beginning again at No. 1.

Some tasteful individual very correctly remarks that the best lip salve in creation is a kiss: the remedy should be used with great care, however, as it is apt to bring on an affection of the heart.

A clear stream reflects all objects upon its shore, but is unsullied by them; so it should be with our hearts--they should show the effect of all objects, and yet remain unharmed by any.

WE love to listen to the soft breathings of the flute, the Ĉolian melodies of the harp, and the bewildering tones of the violin, but then the kettle-drum--"ah! there's the rub" -a dub.

A CERTAIN editor is delighted at having nearly been called "honey" by the gal he loves, because she saluted him at their last meeting as "Old Beeswax!"

[Cpt Boone]

Re: Steam train to Shiloh

Just in case anyone is interested, UP Steam posted a video & pictures of the Shiloh Train on their site. Here is the link to the UP Steam site with all the videos and pictures. Cheers!

http://www.up.com/aboutup/special_trains/steam/photos_videos/index.cfm