knapsack marking for Shiloh

[adamandnicole]

I was kicking around painting the regimental number on my knapsack for Shiloh. Does anyone know if there are any original marked 15th Iowa knapsacks in existence?

Adam Dickerson

[dirtyshirt]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

Adam,
I have not seen or heard of any that were around at Shiloh. Being that the regiment was so young, I highly doubt personalization like this would have been allowed at the time. For example, their Regimental flag didn't even have the unit designation on it yet at the time of Shiloh.

[VA-Patriot'61]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

I'm focusing my efforts on learning more about these soldiers we're portraying. Stick to the basics in the guidelines set out for us, some people can't even get those right at most events. I'm leaving my gear "as issued", unmarked and focusing on learning what I can to be an Iowan for the weekend rather than a Virginian. There's more to this event than looking "cool" and I'm having fun reading the shared research in the preparation for it.

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

There is a knapsack id'd to a soldier in the 2nd Iowa with a solid provenance of pre-July 1862 (he was discharged for injury) that conforms to the "early" war model of packs (exposed rivets, welted seams, etc.) pics and a description can be found here http://www.jarnaginco.com/knap.html . This is NOT an endorsement of the reproduction product based on this example (i've not seen one up close) and it should be noted that I cannot say off-hand that the 2nd and 15th Iowa (unit being portrayed for the event) drew from the same stores...but, that is an example of a pack issued to an Iowa soldier in the west during the Spring of 1862. It should be noted that the 2nd Iowa served in the Second Division and the 15th served in the Sixth Division of the Army of the Tennessee at Shiloh. I cannot tell from the pics if it has a number on it, but as Brandon said, it would be unlikely that it would be marked at this point in the war.You could call David and ask if the example has any marking. I like the little details too, and understand you're interest - it makes it more than the standard "generic" event, materially speaking.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

...but as Brandon said, it would be unlikely that it would be marked at this point in the war.

Just curious, what is the basis for this conclusion?

[roundshot]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

To say that equipment was not marked early in the war is a bit spurious, methinks. While not the 15th Iowa, here is an early war entry from "One Battle Too Many" that may be of interest on this subject:

"Camp Morgan, Buffalo
Jan 21st, 1862

Dear Friends at Home:
Our Reg't is now numbered . . . we are the 100th Reg't of N.Y.S.V.
Tonight at dress parade orders was given to mark all knapsacks with the No. of the Reg't upon.
Your friend,
Simon Bolivar Hulburt"

[KPavia]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

Since this thread is about painting the knapsack for the 15th Iowa for the Shiloh event, maybe you should ask the organizers of the paddleboat event to see what information they have and whether or not they would approve of painting knapsacks. It is their event and guidelines after all.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

I don't have any info on numbering/painting of any gear specific to the 15th Iowa. Just nothing found on that issue when I did limited research on the unit. However I do like a uniform appearance that the entire regiment would have followed, meaning all or nothing. So without specific documentation naming letters, numbers, etc., I'd prefer nothing. Alot of the gear you'll read these guys got in St. Louis. Some gear was only 1-2 weeks old. So if your gear looks like it is at the end of a campaign - ratty, torn, worn out, etc., do what you need to make it look newer. Muddy is fine as St. Louis was mostly mud at their camp, but I'd say guys would want to clean their new gear. But the gear was mostly recently issued so try for that condition.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

I was just making a circumstantial conclusion based on the regiment being fairly busy before Shiloh. Would they have had the means or time to do this? Thinking too on the fact that the Regimental designation wasn't even painted on their flag yet which I would think would have been a priority. Also assuming that a newly formed and trained Regiment would most likely have adhered to Army standards fairly strictly and perhaps would not have been authorized to personalize or mark Government property. As there doesn't seem to be any evidence showing anyone had marked their gear, there is also no evidence that says they didn't. So just trying to think with a Military mind and come to a conclusion that would make sense from a command point of view only weeks after getting new equipment. This would have been the conclusion I would have come to had I been thinking of doing it myself. So, it does fall in the 'opinion' category John :)

Just curious, what is the basis for this conclusion?

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

I hear you, Brandon. And I agree to a point. However, also remember that there were regs/ guidelines for marking equipment. So, it wasn't graffiti, but identification of gear directed by the government. One could just as easily make the case that a new regiment, lacking experience on what regs were "must do" and which could be "blown off", might be led by officers who were sticklers, directing men to mark their gear. Holler found a citation of the 12th Iowa marking their equipment early in the war.

At the end of the day, I think that we DO need to appear as a new regiment and we need to "get beyond the gear" as individuals, companies, and as a battalion. However, I hate to squelch someone's enthusiasm to add detail to his impression in an historically-accurate way.

Just my two cents as "just another reenactor".

Thanks!

[adamandnicole]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

John,
Thank you for the reply. My rationale for the idea was that many of the new regiments would probably have marked equipment because they had just come out of camp and had not yet experienced re-supply,gear wearing out etc. The fact that they had all of the equipment prescribed in the regulations would lead me to believe that there would be a chance that their equipment would also be marked according to the regulations.

Matt satisfied my question sufficiently and I will not mark my pack. However, I do not feel that inquiring about specific details of existing pieces qualifies as trying to look "cool". Anything that I can do to more closely imitate the common soldier that I am trying to portray, I will do. That includes reading everything I can get my hands on AND trying to copy their specific equipage as closely as possible. I do agree that we do need to "get beyond the gear" to a point. There should be a balance between the two (learning /material culture) and I see them as equal partners in creating a well rounded impression.


Thank you,


Adam Dickerson

[VA-Patriot'61]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

If marking knapsacks is going to be done by a few then it should be done by all especially it being a newly organized and equipped unit. It's simple if the event organizers do something similar to the ammo packs and provide a simple numerical template for everyone carrying knapsacks to apply the "15" to it. It's as small trip to the hobby shop maybe a couple of bucks (skip McDonalds once a week) to get the paint and brush, use something that can be easily removed after the event.

Just an idea if others are thinking of this detail too.

[CompanyWag]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

Holler found a citation of the 12th Iowa marking their equipment early in the war.

Put this in the "for what its worth category", but in my collection I have a haversack identified to an Iowa soldier captured at the Hornet's Nest at Shiloh. It matches in shape and description to the regulation painted haversack...except it is unpainted. On the flap is stencilled in large, black 1-1/2 inch characters:

8^TH IOWA
G. 30
M. H.

Minor Hupps served in Company G of the 8th Iowa (he is number 30 on the muster-in roll). As stated, he was captured at the Hornet's Nest and held until exchanged. He later served out the term of his enlistment with the regiment. I believe this to be the haversack he carried at Shiloh as it is the early unpainted style, carries his number from muster-in (I don't think he would have retained that number when the regiment was reorganized, though I could be wrong), shows careful alterations and repairs such as might be done while imprisoned and not on active campaign... and it is most likely that he carried a normal painted haversack to the end of his enlistment. It is easy to imagine this being brought back to Davenport Iowa as a souvenir of his captivity before receiving new issues upon reorganization.

This doesn't necessarily mean that we as the 15th Iowa should carry white haversacks, nor does it mean we should be marking our haversacks in a similar manner. It does mean that this is evidence of another Iowa regiment taking the time to mark equipment prior to Shiloh. That said, we are indeed safest leaving all equipment unmarked for a uniform appearance which is what Matt is asking for.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

Thanks, Paul.

Indeed, I think following the desires of the organizers and commanders is the way to go. In my opinion, one marked knapsack in a company would stick out like a sore thumb, and that's not what we want for Shiloh. But, thank you for bringing out that detail.

I think that there are two different questions at play here:
1) Should we mark our knapsacks (or other gear) for the Shiloh adjunct? -vs-
2) Is it likely/reasonable/plausible that the 15th Iowa had marked their gear before Shiloh?

They are two very different questions, but each has value. I think its OK for us to have different interpretations of question #2, but, ultimately, the best we can do for our comrades is to serve the goals and objectives of the event before our own personal goals. That doesn't mean we can't each have fun with the details of our impression (material and otherwise), but not at the expense of others, or the event, as a whole.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: knapsack marking for Shiloh

I feel its an all or nothing deal. Either everybody does it or nobody does it. Unless we can PROOVE the 15th did it at Shiloh, I say we don't do it.