repro foot officers sword question

[J.H.Berger]

Fellows,
I am searching for information who is selling the best repro of an M1850 foot officer sowrd. There are so many out there it is hard to tell only by pictures. I know that they all will not be like originals but which one comes closest? -Any help is highly appreciated!

I am still searching for an orignal non regulation variant of the british P1821/54 made by Walscheid or Clauberg in good condition!
So if anybody has one he wants to part with let me know please!

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

Hallo!

There are a bunch of old threads on this subject in the SEARCH engine.

Short answer, though...

There are none.

Basically, short of an original, the reproductions are pretty bad. But, there is a "tier' to what can be the better or the worst:

1. I forget their name, but someone was making a pretty decent line of reproduction swords and knives during the Civil War Centennial. I bought one of their Ames Rifleman's knives from an Old Timer from the Centennial. Not perfect, but pretty good especially compared to today's India/Pakistani versions. But these are really rare.

2. The modern version of "Ames." (These are not teh best, just the better of the worst made in India.)

3. Mixed Bag. like Legendary Arms. These are varing degree of weak to poor to bad. I don't know, but there is "inconsistetncy" between shipments in inventory. i realize this is somewhat of a "cottage industry" and wha tone gets often times depends upon which "factory" or "hut" has made the last batch. Or what individual worker doing the work did versus the guy across from him in replicating and shop skills. So, one time one can order and get a better version than the lad who orders a month or year later. Or worse.
I think the only way to try to safeguard against this randomness, is to be able to look over the choices and buy the best of the worst. (Hard to do online.)

IMHO, the two alternatives are to go with Number 3, and have Restoration Services repalce the universal black leather wrapped grip with ray skin.

BUT, by the time one pays for the high end of the Indian market, and the rework, one can sometimes find an original (at leaast in the US) for somewhat a close/closer price. Or bite teh bullet and buy the sword, and have a service craft a leather scabbard for it.

And last...

M1850 Foot Officer swords, being "Civiil War" command a higher price, NUG, than the British, French, or German Civil War imports such as sold by Schuyler, Hartley, & Graham, etc.
And they make an "affordable" option.

Curt

[J.H.Berger]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

Curt, thank you. I have looked at older threads but did not really find what I was looking for.
Unfortunately as I am in Europe the only chance to get hold of originals is ebay or online auctions/ dealers. The latter are pretty pricy!

I have seen the Cav saber from Cold Steel, which impressed me concerning its steel quality. Alas it is a cav saber and not the CO sword.
So I will keep on looking for orignals except i get hold of an acceptable repro.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

The 1850 I picked up 20 or so years ago is an original sword that has a German blade, and was nickel plated and sharpened somewhere along the way. It has all the goodness of an original, but has no collector value at all! I do need to find a scabbard for it if anybody knows of a good vendor.

[David Fox]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

There's a fellow who came to both the Franklin and the Charleston CW shows. works up and upon metal and leather scabbards. He'll likely be at Dalton next month. I'll get info.

[KSfusilier]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

Curt,
Is the current Ames reproductions you speak of from the Ames Sword Company out of New London Ohio? http://www.amessword.com/

[Indianabugles]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

Mr Fox, I am also in Europe and have an M1840 musician sword, original but it has the later issue metal scabard wih it of the type tha was issued after the war, could you please get me some online or contact details for the gentleman who makes the leather scabbards?

[Indianabugles]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

I have been asked by some folk what a post war scabbard for M1840 Musician sword looks like and as I have good daylight I will post the image here.








The one on the left is an Indian Repro from early days and the difference between them in weight, feel and look is up close very apparent. The one on the right is an original with a post war scabbard.






I have posted it by request for those that PM'd me asking what a post war scabbard looked like. Sorry it took a while.

[Jimmayo]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

Is the sword with the post war scabbard dated? The blade looks a little long but it may be because it is beside a shorter repro. I have a C.Roby, 1863 with wartime scabbard with an overall sword length of 34 and about 1/4 inch.

[Indianabugles]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

1862
D
US
(on one side)
some little word I cannot read.
Ames Mfg. Co.
Chicopee
mass
I think there is a scroll above as well.

Ignoring the Repro the blade on the original is 28" long.
The Scabbard is longer but this is usual as they only made one postwar scabbard and it was one size fits all so it is longer than the sword at 32" internally. This fits very snugly with the exspectation that longer NCO M1840 swords should be of that length.
The Repro is text book length at 26" but my original is 28".
Why I do not know.

[Indianabugles]

Re: repro foot officers sword question

http://www.civilwarantiqueshop.com/swords.htm

A quick trip here reveals something interesting

Model 1840 Muscians Sword - Sword blade maker marked with C. Roby W. Chelmsford, MS and dated US 1863 F.S.S., brass guard inspected F.S.S. The 28" blade is nick free with light rust areas & dark spotting from storage & age, would clean to very good to excellent if you so desire, I dont have the time. Brass handle & guard remain uncleaned with a good aged patina, nice sword for the money here. - Price is $ 275.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-10-1216

28" again and not textbook.
Same Variance within NCO Swords in the same lot.

Model 1840 Officer's Sword - Maker marked with Horstmann Philadelphia & Knights Head Logo. The 31" diamond shaped blade remains excellent with scroll leaf design, banner not engraved. All brass guard to include grip, just a tad play in handle. Scabbard good overall showing age with some loss of finish, brass drag with small dent & is bent just a little from use. Nice sword for the money. - Price is $ 250.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-12-1451

Model 1840 Officer's Sword - Maker marked with J.H. Wilson & Co Philadelphia PA. The 30" diamond shaped blade remains good with light nicking, scroll design to include US & Eagle. All brass guard to include grip, handle has some play, could be re-peaned. Scabbard very good overall showing honest age with brass mounts. Nice sword for the money. - Price is $ 250.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-13-1450

Model 1840 NCO Sword - Sword blade is 32" & nick free, shows age with light spotting, maker marked with, Made by Ames MFG Co Chicopee Mass, dated, US AHK 1864. Brass guard inspected with GWC. Scabbard remains in very good condition showing honest use & wear, 3 door bends with no harm of breaking, typical of these, leather stiching remains excellent. Scabbard drag inspected with AHK, small pin hole from sword punture, see image for detail. Nice desirable dated Ames here. - Price is $ 750.00 plus shipping and insurance. Item - SW-21-863

There is 30, 31 and 32" in originals so it would seem a few inch here and there was happening.

There is a second 32"NCO on the second page as well as another 28" Musician variant. Perhaps what is textbook and actual has a degree of play in it.