Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

[GrumpyDave]

Let me go in another direction and hopefully, not start an Internet fistfight. (And, honorable Mods move this or delete it as you see fit.)

How about we stop leaving events in droves because of the weather? There's an 186x, “in the field event,” that happened all of the time, we have truckloads of documentation on: Civil War soldiers could survive in any weather for 36 hours; with the equipage these men were issued for campaign.

Herding cats over some cut-off drawers is interesting to the point some one might find actual documentation on this type of minutia; however, this information has been/was already mentioned in the CRRCII. And, really, on what Internet board would find such a discussion? That’s the value that lies in this forum. “We” have the interest in the time period to ask, “Hey, what if?”

"We" who try to be and profess to be more authentic, have a lot more basic issues that need taken care of first. As to how “We” represent the time period in the field. For others, and me it’s a matter of pride. And, for all of us, it comes down to how we represent our selves to the public, when we have the opportunity to do so. And, especially as far as an “Adjunct” goes; aren’t “We” supposed to be “better” than “them?”

And, no, I'm not the; "be all end all," and I don't profess to know or assume everything. This gentleman, the lack of basic field skills, in our hobby, is glaringly obvious.

Just one man’s opinion, your mileage may vary. I hope I made someone “think,” at the least.

And the answer is "yes" every event, at least 8 events a year, for 7 years. Never failed to show up and never failed to stay until the NPS kicked me out or the event officially ended. My nickname is legend. And, BTW, I'm healed up from some personal stuff and registerd for so far one event at least. You have been warned.

[Hank Trent]

Re: Altered Drawers

Let me go in another direction and hopefully, not start an Internet fistfight. (And, honorable Mods move this or delete it as you see fit.)

How about we stop leaving events in droves because of the weather? There's an 186x, “in the field event,” that happened all of the time, we have truckloads of documentation on: Civil War soldiers could survive in any weather for 36 hours; with the equipage these men were issued for campaign.

Herding cats over some cut-off drawers is interesting to the point some one might find actual documentation on this type of minutia; however, this information has been/was already mentioned in the CRRCII. And, really, on what Internet board would find such a discussion? That’s the value that lies in this forum. “We” have the interest in the time period to ask, “Hey, what if?”

Well, I have to agree with you. Don't recall if I've stayed to the end of every event I've attended, but think I've stayed to the end of most of them.

But on the other hand, it's just one more frustration in the hobby, to hear folks say, who cares about trivia, just show up and stay. Because that's what makes mainstream events mainstream. Folks bring big tents, have short marches, break out the coolers and beer "after hours," get comfortable and enjoy the modern outing without worrying about the history. So I dunno. The ideal would be to have everyone equally enthusiastic about historical trivia and about staying, but I don't know how to accomplish that.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[Coatsy]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

I moved this subject of “Crappy Weather at Events/OMG let’s run!” from the “ACW Under-Roos” post, to its own topic. I think this is a subject that we, as the “authentics” really need think about.

Before I get started with my statement, I have personally left a few events early before for various reasons. From needing medical attention, to having the event called by the park rangers, to just plain leaving because the event wasn’t as advertised. So I cannot sit on a “high horse.”

Weeks after the great ManBullNassas Incident of last year, I was thinking to myself, that why go through the research, get the kit together, take time off from work, travel more a good distance from home, and then leave early? (Note, this just a personal example, there is no need to rehash what happened overall)

After all, in the grand scheme of things, the event was 36 hours or a little more for me. I “embraced the suck” if you will that Friday afternoon, evening, and all day on Saturday. Staying until Sunday afternoon wasn’t that much longer, but I left. The men who actually signed up to fight, or were conscripted during the ACW didn’t have the same luxury that I decided to take that Saturday night, and that point has stuck with me since last summer. I’ve “survived” hard rains at events in the past, been so cold that I couldn’t stop shaking, and been so hot that I wanted to yank my skin off, but I stayed the entire course of the event.

I’ve seen a trend within the “hardcores” to bug out early when the going gets tough in the recent past. That is disturbing. Well, aren’t these campaigner-type events (or these days adjuncts) why we all took the plunge to try and do it as closely as the original men did?

At a recent event, one guy in my mess got antsy to bug out Saturday night because of the threat of severe rain/storms. The curse of smart phones, and people not leaving them in their cars…. So, I had to convince my messmates to stay, and we’d set up shelter if it got super bad. Again, the recent trend of less than stellar weather freaked folks out. I know folks leave early from events all the time, but the crux of the issue is that chain reaction desertions seem to be more frequent than in the past from my perspective.

In the end it is a hobby, but don't sell yourself short.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

If you don't reenact in the rain in Oregon/Washington... you don't reenact.

[Bill]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

Actually, it's pretty simple, campaigners bail out of events because they can. If vehicle restrictions are enforced, Mainstreamers don't really have a choice. They're stuck in place until they can get their cars.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

Superfastshotgunposttoaskabunchofquestionsforconsi deration:

1) Do we really want what we say we want out of events?
2) When we're not bugging out of events because of weather, why is it?
3) When we're bugging out of events because of weather, why is it?
4) Do we want to be "campaigners", but we'd really rather be in tents?

At the end of the day, people who organize events need to know how to get us to stick around. When we leave early, we cheat them, as well as our comrades and ourselves. So, fess up... what would have made you stay? What makes you leave?

If all the reasons to leave are removed, would people stay?
...would they still say the event was "authentic", "good", or some other positive descriptor?

The hobby takes people participating to make it happen.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

But on the other hand, it's just one more frustration in the hobby, to hear folks say, who cares about trivia, just show up and stay.

Let's just switch our focus to the trivia the boys of 186x used to survive under any conditions so we can last for 36 hours at an event, no matter what Mother Nature throws at us. Using the small amount of "campaign equipage" they actually carried.

Yes, there are reasons you could leave an event early. Family emergency, personal emergency or who ever is in charge of the site, tosses you off for your safety. "Oh look! A tornado!"

Hank, I don't want us to forget about the little things, I want us to use the little things those boys used to stay on site for as long as humanly possible. We owe that to the boys we try to represent. And, the people who work their a$$es off to try to give those who register for events the best 36 hour experience they can. And as long as I've known of Hank, there's no one who cares more about the minutia of the time period we all care so much about. NOBODY I know of. BTW, do you ever find that cat? "Here kitty, kitty...

Take Shiloh for example. I'm seeing photos of folks baking for hours, organizing authentic canned supplies and on and on. Can anyone who's been to a Shiloh event anytime since 1997 will understand that the weather this time of year in that part of our country usually stinks. You can expect everything from snow to driving rain and there's certainly going to be mud shoe mouth deep. You know in advance, don't give "us" a black eye by not showing up because you didn't want to get your new Commutation jacket messy.

"We're" supposed to be better. Have some pride. Let's prove it.

Now, (I may hate myself for doing this), My e-mail is attached to this site. There's PM on this site. If you have a question on something that will help you stay, no matter what; from how to cook bacon in the dark to how to sleep in the rain and not die; there is, I'll do my best to help you out with what's worked for me and I assure you, I have never died at an event from temperatures well below freezing to 36 hours of poring down rain. And, you won't either; your gear will be OK too. I don't know about you but I dry just fine every morning after I get out of the shower. LOL.

Here we go. You look at the extended forecast a week out for an event your attending this upcoming weekend. It might rain.

What don't I really need?

Now would be a good time, while your watching your favorite TV show, to oil and blacken you leathers and boots or bootees. Both help keep them waterproof. And, if you bring them home wet. Put them somewhere they can dry "slowly" where there's moving air; not in direct sun or near heat, they'll shrink and crack if they dry too quickly. Then, sometime after the event, and everything is dry, re-oil everything while you're watching your favorite TV show, INCLUDING the leather soles of your boots or bootees. (Use documented period materials, leather likes natural things to keep it soft and make it last) If you throw your accouterments and shoes in the closet wet, expect to find them molded next time you go for them. Wet Leather is great food for mold and mildew. In Reality; this goes for anything you think has a chance of getting wet. Musket, sword, bayonet, haversack. Be prepared for you and everything you carry at an event to get wet. If it gets wet, take it apart, spread it out, let it dry in time and correctly, re-prepare it for the next time.

Wool will help keep you warm even if it's wet. You might want to go with a wool issue shirt, or a civilian shirt made from wool rather than something cotton. Cotton will suck the heat right out of your body and has absolutely no cooling effect, none. Cotton just gets and stays wet forever.

Normally carry 1 extra pair of socks to an event? Carry two if the weather looks bad. Counting Friday, you can at the least start each day with a dry pair of socks on your feet. And, since wool wicks away moisture naturally, you can put a wet pair over a dry pair for added warmth or, wear a dry pair on your hands when you sleep for the same result.

I don't care what anyone says. If it's raining when you lie down to sleep, I leave my shoes on. My feet stay way warmer and way dryer. Muck will brush off of your blanket, gum blanket and other stuff later.

Easiest way to cook bacon in the dark? Put it in your dipper and boil it. It's easy to see the water's boiling and you know after 10 minutes at a rolling boil, you're meat's done. And, the water sucks out some of the salt. Boiling doesn't make your rammer nasty either. For me, I boil everything I take or am issued at an event for rations (Ok, not peaches. However, a mashed up cracker, sugar and peeled and sliced apple, heated in your cup with just enough water added to make a paste is right good.). I've never gotten the flux after an event either.

Like a cup o' coffee as soon as you wake up? Put grounds in water in your dipper before you go to sleep, (somewhere her some Jonah won't kick it over), you'll have coffee by morning. All you'll have to do is sit it on the fire and heat it up. And, if some officer or NCO finds some fatigue for you at first light, well, cold coffee is better than no coffee in my book. And yes, you can do the same thing in your canteen. (documented) Guess what the acid in coffee helps prevent?

Make sure our ground cloth isn't sticking outside your shelter, collecting rain.

I'd rather sleep on my blanket(folded so it fits under my head and torso only) and under my gum if it's raining. Have you ever carried a wet wool blanket? Even if you, and your friend hold on the ends and twist like crazy, it'll still be heavier than usual. But, it will dry. And, to boot, if you sleep under your gum and your clothes are wet or damp, somehow you body heat and that rubberized thing, pulls the moisture out of your clothes. I don't understand how, but, it works. And, the "cloth" side of your gum dries just as quickly as the black side. We've all seen the "drying of the gum" ceremony at the fire, I'm sure.

I better get back to work...

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

Dave,

If I may be so bold...
If YOU ("you" = everyone reading this who will be at Shiloh... or any other event) want to have fun, and having fun involves keeping more folks present "for the duration", then I would recommend taking personal responsibility for the "fun" of those around you.

If you're standing around jaw-jacking with your pards, be aware of the guy standing outside the circle and pull him in.

If you're marching, look around for that "thousand yard stare" that tells you someone is reaching his limit. Get him talking, laughing, or anything to get his mind off of sore feet, sore back, or being cold.

In a nut: Give a damn.

Please Note: Mr. Wickett: The Authentic-Campaigner does not tolerate swearing. When the admin does it, others will follow! Bad boy... go stand in the corner!

Admonishing each other to "sack up" will only get us so far. The "Old Fellows" did it by watching out for each other and kept each others' spirits up!

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

A wise man once told me:

"None of us is a smart as all of us."

How true.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

I think the main reason why campaigners have been leaving events recently is they are farbfest adjuncts- so we take them lightly to begin with. This is a side-effect of "150th adjunctivitis" on us campaigners. we doubt the event going-into it because it is a zoo to begin with, get frustrated and leave. This isn't always the case, but can be a key factor.

That being said, as in the case of the "Great ManBullnassas Skedaddle of 2012", the calling early of IPW, or other events in this category, sometimes leaders have to make difficult choices for their men. EXTREME weather (heat, cold, safety violations- something where someone can get severely injured or killed) should be avoided. As a leader in the Army/Air Force, we are trained not to even take those chances to begin with.

Bottom line: In the real Civil War, MEN DIED when weather got bad. Yes, they could endure a bit more than we can today due to living in more extreme conditions, but they still died when weather got REALLY bad. Do we want that at one of our events? The minute that happens and we are in a world of media attention and pain because of it, not to mention the fact we might lose a comrade's life. That will ruin the hobby for everyone. Campaigners, as all participants, need to use their heads. We can endure extremes, but there is a fine line in "toughing it out" and "someone can get hurt doing this or worse".

My .02 cents

[Prodical Reb]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

The weather at several events in the past couple years have really hit extemes. I've been to several events where weather was bad and only expected to get worse:

After The Battle-November in Fredericksburg canceled due to tornado warnings Sat afternoon- weather had been cold and rainy all Friday night/early Sat morn then stopped just 'for daylight, had some fun then the bad stuff moved in and CXL'd.

Assault on the Alleghenies- 5 or 6 thunderheads stacked up 1 right behind the other in the WV mountains in May or June. Evac'd off the mountain mid afternoon and the really bad stuff hit the fan Sat night. on my drive home I parked in a convenience store parking lot in the Shenandoah valley and rode it out.

both of these instances hind sight says we could have stayed but in the moment nobody's crystal ball can predict what will happen & nobody want to be responsible for and accidental death due to weather events like tornados, lightning, straight line winds in close proximity to trees or in the trees. Both of these event organizers made the right call in the moment!

Manassas 150th was extreme heat but with good pards looking out for each other my unit stayed thru till close Sunday with the help of modern conveyances (water trucks) on site provided by the event hosts. The heat can be deadly but if you know how to deal with it its a no factor.

[Huck]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

On the Great Man-Bull-n-ass-as Skedaddle of 2011, yes the weather was hot and I do mean hot, but hanging out in the stream made things slighly comfortable. However I did and still agree with our leadership on the right choice in leaving when the event people, wanted to close the parking lot. That right there would have cost me my plane ride. Things like that are reason enough for me. Weather I can tough it out for the most part.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

That being said, as in the case of the "Great ManBullnassas Skedaddle of 2012", the calling early of IPW, or other events in this category, sometimes leaders have to make difficult choices for their men. EXTREME weather (heat, cold, safety violations- something where someone can get severely injured or killed) should be avoided. As a leader in the Army/Air Force, we are trained not to even take those chances to begin with.

Apples and Oranges... but since we were asked not to 'rehash' such things, I'll focus on the last part.

Any activity involves risk. Either you can be mature and intelligent and assess the risk ahead of time and put in controls in your planning to mitigate that risk, or you can be juvenile and stupid and charge forward without thought and end up in a point where you've either endangered someone's life needlessly or have to throw in the towel because you don't have the appitude or ability to recover.

I'll never advise someone to be stupid, but I'm a firm believe you don't grow and learn anything by not taking risks. In life, many people fall back on 'safety' as a convenient and defendable excuse to cover over their 'stupidty' or their lack of 'spine'.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

I can see your point, Pete.

Agreed... there is a fine line between 'let's worry about safety/liabilities' and 'shut-up and man-up' at an event. We've all seen both. That can be a very grey area. At times, it can be a hard judgement call for ANYONE in a leadership roll. That goes for any organization- real military or not.

[Old Reb]

Re: Yes, you can survive 36 hrs at an event in the rain

I find simply not attending an event easier than bailing early. I also find that the further participants are from their vehicles that bailing decreases.