15th IA Bread maker

[Will Eichler]

Who was in charge of setting up and executing the bread making and ovens from the Woodburn team? Would you PM me please. I have a few questions for you as I wasn't able to participate in that part of the event.

Thanks!

Will

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

The breadmaking was another "moment" for me. Seeing the men kneading dough, talking, etc. was pretty neat. I wished I was a private at that time... it would have been fun to learn to make the bread.

Any information shared here, I am sure, would be appreciated by many. Ask away, Will!

[Huck]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

I think Art oversaw the mxing of the flour and kneading of the breed but each company "cooks" were incharge of firing up the ovens and baking the bread.

[dirtyshirt]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Will,
I think Cameron Stinnett had a hand in it. You could contact him.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Will,

Short answer, group effort. Long form: I set up the plans from a time when I built ovens to bake bread at Fort Granger in Franklin, TN some years ago. This round alot of guys helped. Cam Stinnett got the bricks, Pat Craddock got the metal plate, I altered my oven design for the new shape and quantity of bricks, I built the first oven and showed the team how to build them, the advance team built the remaining four ovens, Justin Runyon and Andy Martin got the ingredients together needed to make the bread, Art Milbert got the detail together from each company and taught the men how to make proper dough and how to fire the ovens with wood from the ammunition boxes we broke up, and all the men made bread for their companies. There you have the whole story.

[Will Eichler]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Wick - you make a good point. Let's get some of these lessons in the open.

Matt and others - here's a list of questions:

1. What type of brick? Is a "firebrick" necessary or do regular ones work?
2. What's the bread recipe? Mix ratio?
3. I know there was yeast in the recipe - how long to rise?
4. Have you found a good thickness of metal plate to use?
5. Was there a "peel" used to remove the bread?
6. How long should the bread bake, as a general rule?
7. What tricks have been learned that we may need, and can add to as time progresses.

What I have to add -

While the busted up crates served us very well in the field, in garrison (where I need the ovens initially) it may be possible to get better wood. The best woods (according to "The Open-Hearth Cookbook" 2nd edition) are ash, oak, beech and birch. While we grab anything we can in the field, garrisons may have had more options. I'd bet men back then knew from experience what woods burned better. I'd bet it'd be something taken as normal then but we need to know now. Good book and worth the read.

Thanks in advance to those who can share experiences.

Best to all,
Will

[KPavia]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Having been a part of the bread detail, I have to say that I really enjoyed it especially because I was assigned to build and maintain the fire in one of the ovens and bake the loaves given to me. As far as the recipe goes, I know that it was just flour, two pinches of yeast and oil ( I don't know what type ). However, the breads I was given to cook didn't have any time to rise before I put them in the oven. I was worried that they would end up rising too high and smashing up against the metal sheet but that was not the case. They looked like they turned out really good when I pulled them from the oven and turned them into the officer commanding the detail. That was a great and authentic experience that I plan on recreating in my parent's backyard considering I live in an apartment.

[Matt Woodburn]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Will,

1. Get antique bricks so they look right. Study online or ask a brick mason for charateristics to look for. Fire brick is not necessary, but some bricks may break upon heating.
2. The army didn't have a universal bread recipe until the 1870s. Experiment with flour, a little salt, dry yeast (it was issued to the soldiers by 1864), and water. Add sugar and/or sweet oil (olive oil) if desired. I like more plain recipes. Experiment in your oven at home about 3 times to hone it on the recipe.
3. Letting it rise is best, but not necessary if you cheat with fast rise yeast. More period to use regular yeast and let rise in a warm area. You can get dry yeast at almost every grocery like Kroger.
4. 1/8 to 1/4 plate has been used with equal success. Not necessary to use at all if you design with bricks only, but easy this way.
5. Yes, there was a wooden peel.
6. 30 mins to bake usually. Ovens will vary so learn your design.
7. Tricks are: I found a drier dough works better than a gooey dough, fire the oven well for 30 mins to thoroughly heat, and bake for 30 mins so you don't have uncooked dough in the center. Get your dough and baking time down in an oven at home first, then use that dough recipe in your brick version.

Bon apetite!

[GreencoatCross]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

I wish I had baked bread at Shiloh. The first and last time was at Ft. Granger years ago when I was very sick and in pain. I went to the surgeon hoping for lighter duties and was relieved from fatigue (there was fatigue duty involving rebuilding part of the original fort wall that I wasn't sure I could manage) and sent to the commissary. But I would have been better off shoveling and hauling dirt...I could not believe how painful and miserable it was hunched over on the ground at the commissary, kneading dough for hours in front of the row of fired ovens, while sick! Definitely a "period moment" that I wanted to repeat in better health last weekend but MAN was I tired!!!

[Huck]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

As the baker for Co C, my opinion is the ovens should be slighly bigger so have a place for hot coals and a way feed it if need. My opinion,, is one the coals were removed (even though they were placed on top) from inside the oven the bricks started to cool down which increaded the baking time. example those wood fire pizzia ovens always have a fire inside of them to keep the temp even. But it was a blast and I will be doing that again.......

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Here is a consolidated post for bread info:

(Matt: One question I would add would be if there is a drawing or other info for the oven design. For those of us who are really curious and have a li’l campfire spot in the back yard for makin’ s’mores with the kids, this would be fun to try!!)

1. What type of brick? Is a "firebrick" necessary or do regular ones work?

Get antique bricks so they look right. Study online or ask a brick mason for charateristics to look for. Fire brick is not necessary, but some bricks may break upon heating.

2. What's the bread recipe? Mix ratio?

As far as the recipe goes, I know that it was just flour, two pinches of yeast and oil.
The army didn't have a universal bread recipe until the 1870s. Experiment with flour, a little salt, dry yeast (it was issued to the soldiers by 1864), and water. Add sugar and/or sweet oil (olive oil) if desired. I like more plain recipes. Experiment in your oven at home about 3 times to hone it on the recipe.

3. I know there was yeast in the recipe - how long to rise?

Letting it rise is best, but not necessary if you cheat with fast rise yeast. More period to use regular yeast and let rise in a warm area. You can get dry yeast at almost every grocery like Kroger.

4. Have you found a good thickness of metal plate to use?

1/8 to 1/4 plate has been used with equal success. Not necessary to use at all if you design with bricks only, but easy this way.

5. Was there a "peel" used to remove the bread?

Yes, there was a wooden peel.

6. How long should the bread bake, as a general rule?

30 mins to bake usually. Ovens will vary so learn your design.

7. What tricks have been learned that we may need, and can add to as time progresses.

Tricks are: I found a drier dough works better than a gooey dough, fire the oven well for 30 mins to thoroughly heat, and bake for 30 mins so you don't have uncooked dough in the center. Get your dough and baking time down in an oven at home first, then use that dough recipe in your brick version.

What Matt had to add -

While the busted up crates served us very well in the field, in garrison (where I need the ovens initially) it may be possible to get better wood. The best woods (according to "The Open-Hearth Cookbook" 2nd edition) are ash, oak, beech and birch. While we grab anything we can in the field, garrisons may have had more options. I'd bet men back then knew from experience what woods burned better. I'd bet it'd be something taken as normal then but we need to know now. Good book and worth the read.

[Will Eichler]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Wick - the add at the bottom of your consolidated post is actually my info on best wood burning.

For those at the jumping off point, here's my favorite bread recipe at home - and it's really simple:

From "Artisan Bread in Five Minutes per Day" by Hertzberg and Francois, published by St. Martin Press-
(with thanks to my Mom and Aunt Mary for passing the recipe on to me)

Basic Master:
3 cups lukewarm water
1 1/2 Tablespoons granulated yeast (1 1/2 packets if you get them)
1 1/2 Tablespoons kosher or other coarse salt
6 1/2 cups unsifted, unbleached, all purpose white flour

-Mix with a wooden spoon
-Place in a lidded plastic bucket - or for our purposes maybe stack on a broken open cracker box lid
-Let rise for 2-5 hours (I think we'll skip this step in the field!!!! or shorten drastically)
-If doing at home, dust the peel with flour
-Shape dough into grapefruit sized balls
-Rest dough for 40 minutes (again - doubt we'll wait in the field)
-450 degree oven - pre-heat for 20 minutes (modern oven)
-Bake with steam (put a pan of water in the oven at home) for 30 minutes

Hope this helps!

Best,
Will

[Cameron]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

Matt's design originally called for 72 bricks per oven. We knew we wanted no less than five ovens (1 oven per 2 companies).

Due to some unforseen circumstances I could only haul 240 bricks (weight issue and timing issue on my part) In short, I failed to deliver what I said I could.
Upon getting the news that I hadn't brought the required amount of bricks Matt quickly set about modifying his design to accomodate the "1 oven per 2 companies" rule stated above. This meant that less bricks would be involved than originally intended.

Everything had to be compressed. Except the area of the pre cut steel plates of course. So what we got was a shorter, squattier oven. Truthfully, your oven is only constrained by the amount of bricks you have at your disposal. The concept is simple.... make a little area hot and hold that heat as steadily as you can.

[Tom Craig]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

I wasn't at Shiloh, so I can't speak to the bread ovens and baking there, but I do have some experience with using period bread ovens for baking.

Ideally, when you work a properly constructed bread oven, you heat the oven up to the desired temperature, or lacking a thermometer, make it pretty damn hot. After that you either remove the burning material, or you push it way back away from the bread, and don't add any more to it. Someone mentioned brick oven pizza places, but those outfits are working with very thin dough, and are only trying to flash bake it and melt toppings. A loaf of bread needs a slow, even bake to be cooked well throughout.

The process isn't really rocket science. Try it out and have fun with it!
Take care,
Tom Craig
1st Maine Cavalry

[Huck]

Re: 15th IA Bread maker

That was me that said something about pizzia oven, and I was using it as an example as an oven with an on going heat source vs. just heated bricks that start cooling down once the heat source is removed.